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Savage: XR is a new patch for Savage, created by the Newerth.com staff. The XR1.1 Client is out now! Download it now!
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Author Topic: Olderth Maplist & Rotation  (Read 22102 times)
H3027
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« on: September 12, 2009, 03:37:48 pm »

Hello folks!

The more the Savage population shrinks and everyone is playing on the same server, the more we felt the need to keep up the gameplay quality. The Olderth server collective has now decided to launch a project with the aim to give advise to players and admins concerning Savage maps.

We provide a list of the top 200, 100, 50 and 25 Savage maps as downloadable map packages for players and admins.
We also provide and maintain a maprotation with 100 decent maps optimised for small and bigger servers.

http://www.newerth.com/tirza
http://maps.olderth.com (offline)

Please discuss the mapranking, maps to add or to remove and the maprotation values.

Cheers,
Tirza
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 05:16:52 pm by H3027 » Logged



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$hacaR
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2009, 04:05:59 pm »

i dont know exactly every map from the first reading, but as far as i can see
it looks like a great selection !!!
and yeah i think that is very important for the community, since bad maps scare
new players away.. gj there !
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H3027
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2009, 04:10:43 pm »

Every map in the list is linked to the newerth database.

I think not only bad maps scare new players away. Also good maps which are constantly played with the wrong player amount.
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First Witch: When shall we three meet again / In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
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Aneurysm
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2009, 04:27:39 pm »

Every map in the list is linked to the newerth database.

I think not only bad maps scare new players away. Also good maps which are constantly played with the wrong player amount.

agreed.
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$hacaR
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2009, 04:33:33 pm »

Every map in the list is linked to the newerth database.

I think not only bad maps scare new players away. Also good maps which are constantly played with the wrong player amount.

agreed.

yeah true
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Trigardon
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2009, 05:06:51 pm »

Those maps got the Seal of Approvement by Trigardon. Afro
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Helios
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2009, 09:58:17 pm »

borderwar = terrible
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Mr_Matt
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2009, 10:48:45 pm »

a step in the right direction
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H3027
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2009, 12:55:42 am »

borderwar = terrible

I kept all S2 maps in the maplist. Borderwar isn't in the rotation, though.
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First Witch: When shall we three meet again / In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
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Whisky
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« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2009, 05:25:06 am »

The list looks good so far, as we talked about admin still can and will edit it at their will.
Good work Tirza  Afro
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MnM36
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2009, 11:26:56 pm »

i want good old puchi3t back and ts_bern and those maps
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Ophelia
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2009, 03:46:26 pm »

Was this map composed of opinions or by played on servers? Not that it's a bad list at all but how was the list composed? By plays on each server? Or peoples opinions?

I'm just curious is all - good job either way - and as always I appreciate any efforts made into this community.
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H3027
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2009, 06:03:55 pm »

Was this map composed of opinions or by played on servers? Not that it's a bad list at all but how was the list composed? By plays on each server? Or peoples opinions?

I'm just curious is all - good job either way - and as always I appreciate any efforts made into this community.

This list is composed by experienced players and commanders according to criterias, which have been summarized nicely by Aneurysm: http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,8649.0.html


Maprotation

There isn't actually a tutorial for maprotations. I will try to explain what the maprotation does and how the maps have been discussed.

A maprotation defines which maps get loaded when a nextmap vote passes or when the server loads the next map after a match. There are either static maprotations, which load maps always in the same order (eden2, crossroads, bunker, eden2, crossroads...), however, today on most servers are dynamic maprotations used which load maps probabistically. They also have the advantage, that you can consider important circumstances like the player amount.

This is our currenct Olderth maprotation:
http://maps.olderth.com/maprotation.cfg

For each map you can define 4 values:
<minnumplayers> <bestnumplayers> <maxnumplayers> <frequency>

<minnumplayers>

The first number (minnumplayers) defines what minimal player amount is needed that the map gets loaded. Is the value 0, then the map can get loaded when the server is empty (after a server restart for instance). Is the value 10, then the map can only get loaded if there are already 10 players or more on the server.

Criterias to consider when defining the <minnumplayers> for a map:
- mapsize
- flags (on maps with flags forward outposts aren't initially needed -> lower minplayer amount)
- warmup time / popularity (a map where it usually takes ages until someone wants to take commander -> higher minplayer amount, more popular maps, faster warmups -> lower minplayer amount. This is very important to consider for small or unknown servers which cannot mindlessly relay on the 1001 players which play there anyway and have the server in their favourites since years.)

<bestnumplayers>

The <bestnumplayers> value isn't as important as the <minnumplayers> value, but there are way more criterias to consider. Also is this value not that definitive as min or maxnum. A map with high frequency and 20 bestnumplayers might also get loaded with 30 players if the maxnumplayers value allows it - instead of a low frequency map with bestnumplayers 30.

- mapsize
- battle area and player distribution (one way maps with large open ground -> lower bestnum, maps with large open ground in front of base -> lower bestnum, maps with small paths -> lower bestnum, maps with bottlenecks -> lower bestnum, also: maps with 5 ways to the base where however only one path is used -> lower bestnum, but: maps where players normally split up -> higher bestnum)
- hills (large hills -> lower bestnum)
- flags (Lower bestnum for most maps with flags (unless they are huge). If a map has flags next to RS mines -> lower bestnum, otherwise sac is owerpowered.
- gold amount (this is a secondary and restrictive criteria. If there are huge hills or the battle is concentrated on a bottleneck but the gold amount is high, this shouldn't have much influence. However, if the battle area is huge and the gold amount very low, the bestnum value should be set lower.)

<maxnumplayers>

The <maxnumplayers> value defines the maximal player amount which allows the server to load a map. For the <maxnumplayers> value we have to consider the same things as for <bestnumplayers>, however, gold amount and battle area are more important.

<frequency>

The <frequency> value is relative (to the map with the highest frequency value) and defines the probability with which a map gets loaded. It has to be considered that maps with low minnum amount should have a rather low frequency while maps with high minnum amount should have a higher frequency, otherwise the popularity decline is most likely too strong.
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First Witch: When shall we three meet again / In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
Second Witch: When the hurlyburly's done, / When the battle's lost and won.
H3027
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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2009, 11:12:18 pm »

I wish we could test and optimize the new rotation on a populated server.
Are there any new suggestions so far? Please read my post above, it will help you to judge our work.

Map Rotation: http://maps.olderth.com/maprotation.cfg
(Top 200, 100, 50, 25 of Savage maps: http://maps.olderth.com/)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 11:35:23 pm by Tirza » Logged



First Witch: When shall we three meet again / In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
Second Witch: When the hurlyburly's done, / When the battle's lost and won.
shuN
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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2009, 02:49:20 am »

Although I would agree that a majority of maps in the Olderth rotation are valuable for replayability and equality, I think that it's a complete double edged blade.

My reasoning:

I feel that half the people quit playing Savage due to loss of originality.

1) Fuckers don't welcome new players. They're noob to veterans. They suck to veterans. They get dogged on and chewed up by vets because of their lack of skill/knowledge to gameplay.

(although this has no relevance to mapping, it leads up to my point)

2) Vets like specific maps because lets be honest, they've been playing a long time. They know most maps. They know the twists and turns, the stone mines and the fwd spots. They KNOW the maps. A majority of vets don't like change. But, just like in the business world, change must be welcome'd with open arms.

The classic maps like bunkers, 2castles, alpineglow, chevalier, duskhills, etc.. They have seniority basically. Though in my opinion they are the reason vets stay and the reason vets go.

It's not news when a bunch of people say, "oh like we haven't played this map 50 times a day"
Or
"We just played this map 3 hours ago"

I think the idea of a good map rotation with classics that keep playability, although sometimes a couple hour long game, is great... it's also not welcoming to newer maps that imo are a refreshing venture into new avenues.

Take note: there are currently 31 maps awaiting final check. That does not include maps that are awaiting final fixing.
And like you say yourself.. thousands of maps available.

I think half the reason is map rotation, keep some good ones, but also welcome new maps into rotation on heavily populated servers. Also, people need to chill out and get the word out that Savage is one of the top free to download, free to play games available. Welcome the newbies, welcome the people who suck.

Here's an idea for the Newerth crew:

Put new maps into rotation asap. Keep them flowing. In and out. It's a vicious cycle, but if it doesn't want to get played, it won't be. If it doesn't look good, people won't command and it'll get next mapped. At least it'll have a chance!

Here's my take:

If I were admin, I'd check maps. I make sure maps got added asap and checked asap.
I'd also play on populated maps and callvote them into play to test them and check for user feedback.

You can't have biased feedback from a LAN game. Callvote it into play after passing into rotation.
Play the map. Get the players' feedback.

Players' feedback keeps games alive.

If the players aren't happy, they'll leave. Cheesy

*rant over*
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