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Author Topic: A simple solution to balliwhoring  (Read 16770 times)
Epoks
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« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2008, 07:30:36 am »

Behemoth is fine.
Summoner is fine.
Ballista is fine.
Catapult is not fine.

Cata changes:
-Recode it so there are two dmg radii, one for building pierce, one for unit pierce. The unit pierce should be severely nerfed (direct hits only), the building pierce should be normal.

As for the complaints about ballistas, they are extremely easy to kill and anyone who thinks otherwise is going about things the wrong way. I rarely get killed by ballistas, and when i do on the rare occasion its a stray shot across the map while i'm looking somewhere else or vsing someone.
Getting behind and staying behind a ballista is EASY, melee'ing them is no trouble. Staying back and range attacking a ballista is EASY, find a place for cover and pop out and shoot in between ballista cooldown (too easy!).

The problem isn't the siege, its how people go about dealing with them. If i get time i'll put a video up showing how to avoid ballistas and you can see how easy it is for yourself.

In conclusion, please, no more suggestions about completely screwing with the way things work just because you've been killed one to many times by someone who annoyed you.
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Notausgang
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« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2008, 10:42:50 am »

This is NOT (or at least only subconsciously) about me personally.

I'd just like to improve the gameplay here and I do not see how these changes are "screwing the way things work", unless you are claiming that siege being useful against units is a key component in the overall gameplay (which I hope you don't, as such people cannot be argued with at all). Of course, straying around alone as siege will doubtlessly become more dangerous, but I reckon that won't hurt gameplay much (the required teamwork might even improve it!) and even if it were it'd still be a feasible tradeoff. (however, you are stating yourself that e.g. ballistas even right now haven't got any chance in such situations; so for them this'll be less of a change)

And don't tell me you will actually miss being OHKOed by siege; no one having no problem with siege so far will have a problem with this solution - except the people that actually liked to use siege against units themselves and the ones that liked straying around alone as siege Tongue


I won't start discussing with you how difficult it is in/with certain situations, places, equipment, team backup, etc to combat a ballista as I haven't got the nerves for that and I'm just talking about the principles and ideas behind the game in general.

In my opinion, it definitely is worth a shot to try out these changes, and ones yet to be thought up when it becomes clear whether the game changes for the worse or the better that way.


The catapult change you are suggesting does sound reasonable, but I haven't looked at that matter deep enough yet and I have no time to continue writing at the moment Tongue
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hell'
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« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2008, 10:49:45 am »

What about making behes unable to capture flag and destroy demos?
Wouldn't fix the problem, but would help.

hmm - i like the underlying idea - espec. when it comes to the demos... but about the captureing flag i am not sure, as sometimes - in a rush after a flag being stolen - a behe is the last standing unit and should be able to re-capture flag. (but yeah - i also know that this still implies the possibilty of ppl camping falgs)

as allways in these discussions - every idea for a change will automatically produce a counter-idea or at least a (mostly) good point against the change. This is not specifically aiming at sieges only, but also on changes in general.
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Tjens
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« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2008, 12:26:05 pm »

What about making behes unable to capture flag and destroy demos?
Wouldn't fix the problem, but would help.

hmm - i like the underlying idea - espec. when it comes to the demos... but about the captureing flag i am not sure, as sometimes - in a rush after a flag being stolen - a behe is the last standing unit and should be able to re-capture flag. (but yeah - i also know that this still implies the possibilty of ppl camping falgs)

as allways in these discussions - every idea for a change will automatically produce a counter-idea or at least a (mostly) good point against the change. This is not specifically aiming at sieges only, but also on changes in general.

woot noo! behes should be able to smash a small demo pack with their massive tree trunk, but i dont see how a giant elephant looking tree holder has the sublety requered to (capture/paint/hit the swich to?) to get a spawnflag! I think if you guys keep behes to capture flags you should balis be able to capture a flag by shooting closerange with them  Rolleyes Cheesy
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Enliven
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« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2008, 12:27:14 pm »

Beast siege should not be able to capture the flags, simple as that.

On the sub spawning, well, IMO it's OK, however, commander should have something like 10 second spawn delay when he resigns (but that's in my wishlist already I think)
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Enliven
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« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2008, 12:27:45 pm »

lol, Tjens beat me to it, simultanuous posts ftw
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Epoks
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« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2008, 01:04:48 pm »

woot noo! behes should be able to smash a small demo pack with their massive tree trunk, but i dont see how a giant elephant looking tree holder has the sublety requered to (capture/paint/hit the swich to?) to get a spawnflag! I think if you guys keep behes to capture flags you should balis be able to capture a flag by shooting closerange with them  Rolleyes Cheesy
Human siege can eject and capture the flag, i don't see why you don't want behemoths to? This is the worst argument lmao, so your saying you have to be 6ft tall to capture a flag? So someone whose scaled 3x that of your size is unable to do what you do because hes carrying something with one hand? (behe's have the same physical abilites of a human Tongue).
We could go all day with elaborate way in which they can and can't capture flags, but its stupid and no worth wasting time on.

Human siege can capture flag (2 siege untis,via eject), beast behemoth can capture flag (and only 1 siege unit, via standard attack). It seems completely reasonable and fair to allow this kind of balance (not perfect, but it works well).

On the matter of comm resigning, in my opinion (as a frequent comm) resigning to defend your base is a vital feature. Not every game is a clanwar, or a PUG. People do not listen to their comms (ok, maybe a few every handful of games), so forcing commanders to sit by and do nothing is cruel Cheesy. They also leave themselves open to sneaks and rushes when they leave (its in the enemies best interest to keep the comm out as long as possible to allow for sneaking).
When i command i feel responsible for the team, i do whatever i can to make sure they have to deal with as few issues as possible, that means hopping out to kill someone going around to BD, or killing someone on a tech building so that my players don't have to return from the offensive.

The game is fun AS IT IS (cata spam aside). And please, no suggestions of countdown timers for anything, theres NOTHING worse than having to sit around idle waiting on a timer before you can play a game.  Angry
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Enliven
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« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2008, 01:24:12 pm »

Yo, have you tried 1.0? Changes are what made savage what it is, and there's always a possibility of expansion.
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Tjens
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« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2008, 01:47:00 pm »

ooh yeah forgot humans can bail out =p

bring back the summners mellee ability IMO ( Tongue)
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Enliven
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« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2008, 03:22:38 pm »

is it me or someone deleted some posts from here?
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Takz
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« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2008, 03:24:02 pm »

I deleted my own just now.
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Notausgang
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« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2008, 03:49:26 pm »

commander should have something like 10 second spawn delay when he resigns (but that's in my wishlist already I think)
that's not more than one line of code, it'll at least make is as an option (maybe off by default).

behe's have the same physical abilites of a human Tongue
they can't jump! at least most of the time they can't Rolleyes
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SyKot
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« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2008, 06:42:48 pm »

I suggested to remove the ability to behes capture flags because they already have a huge effect on Flag Wars.
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onfire
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« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2008, 04:59:09 pm »

Tbh I occasionally die to balis, but 1 on 1... they're fairly easy to kill with pred n rabid.

And really people only get pissed when they get killed by bali is when they're farming nomads/savs at SH and the only other unit available is bali. That's when the "Fuckin bali whore noob" comes out and the kick votes. So basically the majority don't care and if a person is truely bali whoring. then there's a good chance he/she will get ref kicked or vote kicked. (unless it's razer starting a vote)

My two cents

Also. Has this gone slightly off topic about bali's, from what i've read we're now on about behe spawning invincibility time + comm spawn delay? But whatever makes you lot happy Smiley
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Aurelias
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« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2008, 11:28:45 am »

avoiding seige in general is as easy as strafing.
espec with balli's, however, i reckon balli's shouldnt be able to shoot someone on a 45 degree angle like they can now. aybe reducing that and making balli's have qquicker turning would make it more challenging, plus its harder to balliwhore over a wide area
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