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Author Topic: HvB advice ^^  (Read 4027 times)
twatface
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« on: January 13, 2008, 11:08:51 am »

Ok I'm guessing a lot of players here won't know me, but I have been a fairly consistent active player in Savage since 2004, but I just never found HvB game-play to be that fun, so I stuck to the HvH servers. Many many moons ago I founded the SCO clan, which is mainly for HvH players. However this does create a problem for clan wars, as there really are no other HvH clans, and all HvB clans would never want to have a HvH clan war. So for clan wars, we often just have it so our opponent always plays as the Beast team and SCO plays as humans.
Obviously I have played HvB from time to time and have some knowledge of HvB gameplay, but I have some questions I'd like to ask to this predominantly HvB community concerning HvB clan wars...

(These questions are mainly geared to the 'commanding' aspect of a clan war)
1. In a HvB clan war, what generally is the best tactic to adopt as Humans?
2. What is the best way to defend your SH against and early Beast Sac rush.
3. What is the best way to defend a far out garrison against an early sac rush.
4. Any other helpful hints or tips for me? ^^

Thanks for reading...
Oh and if any clan IS actually up for a HvH clan war. Say so, or challenge SCO at scoclan.15.forumer.com
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Trigardon
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2008, 01:20:52 pm »

Get your ass on the EvO Public and check what the pro comms do.  Afro
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UnSaFe
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2008, 01:49:07 pm »

Get your ass on the EvO Public and check what the pro comms do.  Afro
Evo servers are nothing like clanwars becouse you mostly play 25v25 (or more). And in clanwars theres about 6-12 people in one team, and that leads more to other servers. Like Multiplayer.co.uk 1 and 2. Oh and i advise you to play allot of pug games, or spec them. Couse pug games have the most resemblance of a CW.



*Ribbit*
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Django
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2008, 01:57:40 pm »

PUGs are very good to learn from Smiley Have you tried checking out the demo's on Newerth.coms demo section?
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Trigardon
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2008, 03:34:17 pm »

Get your ass on the EvO Public and check what the pro comms do.  Afro
Evo servers are nothing like clanwars becouse you mostly play 25v25 (or more). And in clanwars theres about 6-12 people in one team, and that leads more to other servers. Like Multiplayer.co.uk 1 and 2. Oh and i advise you to play allot of pug games, or spec them. Couse pug games have the most resemblance of a CW.



*Ribbit*

True CWs aren't that hard. But PUGs are Wink
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Aery
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2008, 11:17:42 pm »

1 basic tip: Keep an eye on your gold, and make sure if the gold comes slow someone is on perma-monkiteering, if ya know what I mean  Cheesy

It's one of the most crucial parts imo in a CW. You'd rather have fully geared legio's than nomads with only flux or so walking around.

For the rest, save gold on your base, and just make it anti-sac, then make sure summs won't get close to your base and you can save a lot of RS on your base, which you certainly need for tech and pushing forward as humans.

Good luck !
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AlphaFtw
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2008, 06:00:49 am »

In CW's humans generally have to play defensively at first and get tech asap. Beasts usually get a sac rush or temp/summ rush out early, so you have to prepare for those. In a lot of maps, garring your base for pmine before anything else is a very GOOD thing. In CWs, generally, if humans have lvl3/mag/elec/chem and a good base they usually win or draw. But then again theres teh balli rush. Oh and since beasts do have leap, tell your clanmates to go in groups rather than alone (unless hes someone like ninkum).

Last officer target works wonders against beasts in pub (and as you start using it more, you'll find out that you can actually trick beasts out and stop worrying about summs hiding in places). And a launcher doesnt own as much.
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Aery
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2008, 09:04:20 am »

In CW's humans generally have to play defensively at first and get tech asap. Beasts usually get a sac rush or temp/summ rush out early, so you have to prepare for those. In a lot of maps, garring your base for pmine before anything else is a very GOOD thing. In CWs, generally, if humans have lvl3/mag/elec/chem and a good base they usually win or draw. But then again theres teh balli rush. Oh and since beasts do have leap, tell your clanmates to go in groups rather than alone (unless hes someone like ninkum).

Last officer target works wonders against beasts in pub (and as you start using it more, you'll find out that you can actually trick beasts out and stop worrying about summs hiding in places). And a launcher doesnt own as much.

I agree with a lot of this but humans will have to play agressive as well, if humans go "turtle", they'll just get burrowed in, and escaping and pushing out of base becomes very hard for humans, especially low gold maps. Be aware of this, and plan any kind of situation and tactic with your clan on your clanforum. Show them what base you'll make so they know the key defending points.

And oh yes, I still firmly believe that a clan who specializes in the use of immoblizers can win versus any clan, if their team sticks together and uses officer last command for the whole squad and everyone in the team knows their role. Immob +3 fluxers take down a pred in a matter of seconds, but you have to work as a team for that.
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rebbel
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2008, 01:01:39 pm »

Pop in to multiplay.co.uk

From time to time you can spot a good hummie respond to early sac rush...

My go would be electric asap, and destroying the enemy forward sub at all costs... hopefully before they will get a sac. that would left beasties a bit backwards in tech tree, and would be a good opening point for any counterattack Wink

take care.
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Aery
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2008, 01:33:07 pm »

Pop in to multiplay.co.uk

From time to time you can spot a good hummie respond to early sac rush...

My go would be electric asap, and destroying the enemy forward sub at all costs... hopefully before they will get a sac. that would left beasties a bit backwards in tech tree, and would be a good opening point for any counterattack Wink

take care.

Against a good beast comm that won't work, at least not the "killing the sub part".
1 normal spire next to sub and nomads won't hurt the sub much, plus beasts have ember which is good for defending sub. Only chance is to flux all incoming beasts and pop a few towers at base so beasts fall easily. Only very good timed sacs will kill your towers that way. Just let your players guard the towers and make a compact base which is hard to sac. Engage the enemy en route to the sub and prevent them from taking multiple entrances to the base. Other way to stop saccers is just go mag, fast shield and in the meanwhile go sensors and immobs instead of meds. If your team is staying close to base anyway they don't really need meds and beast is focussed on saccing anyway.
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rebbel
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2008, 02:34:32 pm »

I take the point. it is not easy to slash a completed sub early...

I agree with what ur saying there is a small but though. Ember is available prior to sac usually. and prior to the fastest shield. So a team of  beasts concentrating fire on one tower will waste the defenses in a matter of seconds... lost stone = lost time and as sac is concerned the time is of the essence.

I would update my plan:
-try to spot and slash enemy sub on spot - before it is constructed.
-make one of your men dance with the enemy workers - serious distraction, and a serious slowdown in a rush possibly severe slowdown. Rushers tend to neglect base security to have what they need earlier and to secure front sub.
-chemical as a second (perhaps) tech may give you a good results, as it will provide you with a speed buff, quite useful in the beginning (IMO more than shield), and the mines + demopacs which are helpful in both stopping the beasties enering your site and making them worry about the condition of their front sub in the first place.

Smiley
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Eclipse
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2008, 10:39:27 pm »

A possible is an all out offense. If your team is good enough, let them deal with the defense while com focuses on balli and a forward gar. I've won quite a few games with that. It's VERY risky, but if the map doesn't lend itself to a nice shield, sometimes the best way. If you know there's not enough people to kill lair fast, don't hesitate to kill tech instead. No fire/seige means a big respite for the base, and no seige may mean they dont get level 3.
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Aery
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2008, 08:26:17 am »

What could be the best defence against an early sac rush is a 2nd mine garr, which distracts the beasts from your main base untill shield is up. Heck, who knows, you might even make the 2nd mine survive if you have the time to get till immobilizers and a shield up on that 2nd mine. It's possible, certainly. From your 2nd mine you can send counter-attacks to delay the enemy saccers, but your team has to use the right route to distract beast, not go miles around and waste time with it.
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rebbel
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2008, 09:50:33 am »

Problem with sac rush is that on the majority of situations u wonít have time or resources to build shield such as it is not lost, and if it is lost, you need really strong insect repellent to build it secure once more.... and the time is ticking and a thread of summies grow.

Hard to say really... yesterday I had a avenue_sep, which is pretty small, and being hummie comm, I've blocked the bridge with gar + arsenal + tower. That time gave the beast sublair just BY the base, under the bridge, by the end of wooden fence...

All went to slash it but they failed.
I went for magnetic right of to shield myself, and give scattergun and repeater. but as soon as they go amber my towers were wasted. Then the sacs, but they were repelled by a team so I've managed to shield it eventually. But all the hassle I had about it made a summoners come even faster... bang and no shield at all.

What have saved me was my cunning team, with savages, repeaters, ballistas, and ammopacks+medkits from time to time, cause I'd the research centre down twice or three times I canít rememberxD

Half of the team had taken bridge with the balli, second half have wasted their sub by my base as well with the balli Smiley

That turned the tide.. with disabled fire, melee and siege they fell.

Summing that up: Shield was not really essential for me I think, I could have done few more items, or have some factorium built instead. Nevertheless, to win with the sac rush you need 2 things as early as possible.
1) secure front gar
2) ballistas:D

ballistas quite efficiently wipe the beastie presence out of your base proximity,
and when unspotted, will waste enemy tech in the metter of moments Cheesy

On the other hand, It could be that all of that have been just luck though Wink 'Fortune presents gifts not according to the book';]

Regards
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 12:53:19 pm by rebbel » Logged
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