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Savage: XR is a new patch for Savage, created by the Newerth.com staff. The XR1.1 Client is out now! Download it now!
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Author Topic: Comm-less Mode Discussion Thread  (Read 5474 times)
Hakugei
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« on: July 01, 2017, 03:31:29 pm »

Hello fellow Newerthians, both active and behind the scenes.

One of the more recent updates introduced Comm-less Mode as a first draft to be able to play Savage when there are no willing comms around to take up the burden.
  • COMM-LESS MODE (First Draft)
    • Sometimes it is difficult to find someone willing to command while all anyone wants to do is just play the game instead of wait around, yet coding an AI Comm is an enormous task, so this is intended as a first draft compromise until AI Comms are reality
    • /callvote commless & /ref commless
    • This mode can only be activated in WARMUP if there are NO comms. When this mode is enabled (e.g. vote passed or ref command), comm is disabled, all tech (units, weapons, items) is enabled, and the match immediately starts

Almost a month since then, it is time to finalize the feedback and discuss further improvements or removal.
Here is some of the feedback/ideas I've received:
  • Increase command center (stronghold & lair) health, e.g. tier3 instead of tier1
  • Make tech gradually unlock, instead of all at once
  • Combine with fieldcomm panel to let officers build and research on their own (add a promote vote as well for said officers)
  • As above, but only allow outposts and towers in the fieldcomm panel
  • Spawn some basic buildings around the command centers at match start
  • Disable siege
  • Disable explosive items (e.g. sac, demo)
  • Increase gold/income rate

Let me know what you guys think about the mode, in which direction we should go, and any further unvoiced ideas that might be floating around. Perhaps we'll even have multiple different modes with different flavours, if the demand exists.

Or I'll just remove the mode entirely if no one actually wants it. Grin Save myself the trouble.
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Brad_Troika
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« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2017, 03:43:16 pm »

I haven't had any experiences with commless mode so far, but one problem with it is that the vote cannot be initiated if there's 1 comm already elected.

I'm not sure this restriction makes sense so I would suggest removing it.
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Hakugei
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2017, 11:07:16 am »

Looks like no one really cares about the direction it will take.
This means the Council has free roam on this; don't say I didn't warn you guys. Grin
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Tjens
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2017, 12:54:47 pm »

I personally think commanderless mode is only really usefull when played on a map designed for the mode specifically. Most maps will be too large without sublairs and garrisons anyway. While some people like walking around, most want immediate action right from their spawnpoint. Maps should be build around this concept - immediate action chokepoints with more quiet, longer pathways to action for less intense fighting.

xr_pvp2 is a great example of a map-driven commanderless map, abeit a little bit dark in ambience it's core mechanics are well suited for player versus player combat.

Come to think of it, if you would take the settings used for xr_pvp2 we could maybe use the mode for some of the tinyier maps out there.



I also have some mad and incoherent thoughts of a second commanderless mode where players on the field players can place all buildings themselves.. I could embelish..
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Hakugei
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2017, 01:19:14 pm »

As listed before, there are multiple options of changing or adding commless modes to the game.
So a second mode is definitely in the cards.

And as Brad said, I'll be removing the no-comm requirement and just forcefully resign any comms when the vote passes.
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Brad_Troika
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2017, 01:33:49 pm »

I don't think a commless mode where officers can and should be building/researching everything is a good idea.

Something more feasible and useful would be a mode that, like xr_pvp gives you tech over time and officers can create spawnpoints around the map. Problem with this is that untowered garrs/subs will become more and more vulnerable over time, a solution might be to be able to upgrade them with more hp/attack/shield/heal effect. An option like this would also require some method for the team to get redstone.

I haven't tried the officer building gui yet, so I don't know how accurately you can build with it, but human bases with shields need to be built sometimes quite specifically.
Having multiple officers decide what the base would look like could be another problem, restricting team to 1 officer would be essentially a commander making the mode pointless.

Unless you're trying to create a mode that could replace commanders in a lot of games I think a better option would be to just have more maps like xr_pvp.
Or make commanding more fun/easier so we get more commanders.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 03:21:58 pm by Brad_Troika » Logged
Daemon
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2017, 06:30:17 pm »

Could make a new outpost upgrade, Mining Outpost, that will mine automatically a nearby mine.
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Hakugei
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2017, 07:17:03 pm »

have more maps like xr_pvp.
Someone needs to make said maps then, and mappers make whatever maps they want whenever they want it.

Or make commanding more fun/easier so we get more commanders.
The various Acting Officer (Resigned Commander) improvements and Officer Panel are exactly that; making comm easier and more fun to play.
More ideas are welcome.
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Tjens
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2017, 08:47:05 am »

have more maps like xr_pvp.
Someone needs to make said maps then, and mappers make whatever maps they want whenever they want it.

Haha, yes, I for one will have a sudden burst of productivity when a certain idea for a map pops up, and when the motivation and creative energy runs out I might have a map laying dormant for months or even years lol.

BUT

In lue of the XR dev team being awesome with updates and change lateley I would like to OFFER MY SERVICES to make whatever the dev team wishes!! (and will get it done!!) Productivity AWAITS
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Brad_Troika
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2017, 09:58:15 am »

As I see it there are two kinds of map "required".

1) an alternative to xr_pvp. A small, commless map that we can play with only a few people around to build server. Preferably without siege units.
2) an alternative to izi. A small, easy to comm, simple map.

A more complicated and ambitious idea would be to create a commless map for 10-14 people. However a map like that would require capturable spawns that can be better defended than a flag. I know Daemon mentioned something about re-buildable spawns, something like that could work on a larger map (with no siege).

However I still think that the lack of comms is mostly a problem when the server population is low, the first 2 options could help a lot about that with the least required effort.

Anyways, thanks in advance Tjens.
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Hakugei
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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2017, 01:27:42 pm »

Sure Tjens, we are always appreciative of mappers adding quality maps to the Savage experience. Smiley

As Brad said, some more xr_pvp maps would be ideal for smaller or commless matches.
The entire reason I bothered with a commless mode/vote in the first place is because of the lack of specific maps. Afro

The second problem is making it clear to the community that these small pvp/commless maps even exist in the first place. Undecided
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kLLik
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2017, 12:54:40 pm »

Why do we need a commanderless mod when we can make any map in commanderless map.. we just need to copy scripts from xr_pvp and remove rs/gold mines.

You could think about a survival mod, this type of mod is played a lot, and this can make populate savage:)
- mod:
- every player to be random human or beast;
- at the begin player get 500 gold can buy just 1 item a weapon or a medkit/frenzy;
- map should be huge;
- mini map and chat should be allowed just for spectators;
- map should hide units, weapons, items, buffs;
- some hidden traps in map;
- when an player die move him to spec until the matchs over.
- random spam players in map.

I will be glad to make huge maps for it:)

Could make a new outpost upgrade, Mining Outpost, that will mine automatically a nearby mine.
make something new for us.. we are bored to use same old objects, PLESASE.

I just said my opinion:)
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Trigardon
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2017, 01:38:52 pm »

You could think about a survival mod, this type of mod is played a lot, and this can make populate savage:)

If you're any good at python + modifying savage bots you could give me a hand with a survival mod I'm working on. Tongue
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kLLik
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2017, 08:45:14 pm »

I wish to can help u, but I am not a coder.. I am mapper Tongue
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Trigardon
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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2017, 10:08:20 pm »

Pity. That could / would have mean the beginning of a new potential gamemode... Sad
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