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Author Topic: Savage 3 confirmed  (Read 108348 times)
AdmiralXiggy
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« Reply #105 on: October 09, 2015, 02:40:15 am »

Every iteration of Savage 2 is a released Alpha. So, there's not really much to glean there. I'm not so sure there's a way to make the Savage series "accessible". I think the greatest minds of the 21st century thoroughly enjoy S1/S2. I have yet to meet a human being that wasn't unique or underwhelmingly untalented that gained a 'tenure' status.

Whether or not the opinions given are considered, every and ALL games must be balanced for professional play. Catering to the less intelligent (i.e. WoW, League of Legends, Call of Duty, Halo which really died) and dumbing down any game will make way to death.

I disagree on the notion that hitboxes need to be 'wrapped' around the character, instead of linear. Being able to get around these hitboxes is what makes an incredibly good player different from a god, as we can see through the works of the final S2 combat meta. The three best players are able to discern and attack around the hitboxes. I do think, however, that the hitboxes need to cover the entire front down to the feet, where current blocking is inconsistent.
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Nymph
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« Reply #106 on: October 11, 2015, 12:48:16 am »

I think it has been pointed out alot before but let me do it one more time to emphasize its urgency:

1st Be careful with the melee system. I donīt know wether it was an accident or on purpose, but the melee system in savage 1 is perfect. I could do this forever. Trying to increase its complexity in savage 2 did not work well in my eyes and was one of the major reasons the savage 1 player base did not migrate to its successor. This does not mean that you should not change it or make a new one, but what ever you do, look at what you did in savage 1, try to find out why people are still playing this and BE CAREFUL with whatever you throw at us as the new melee system.

2nd Commanding is awesome in Savage 1. As a commander you have countless possibilities to play a map. You can rush, turtle, go for the long game or push from the very first second. There are many ways to decide a match as a commander and even after 12 years, new ways are still emerging. Please keep it that way (or make it even better)!

I sincerely stand by this statement! S2, take my money!
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jazzking
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« Reply #107 on: October 12, 2015, 04:46:10 am »

Daemon - the most popular games on the pc multiplayer platform at the moment are hard. LoL, Dota, CSGO, etc. The important part is matchmaking with equally skilled (or unskilled)  opponents.

The "accessibility" buzzword is largely relevant to single player and other platforms such as mobile.
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Stringer
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« Reply #108 on: October 12, 2015, 08:54:23 pm »

The important part is matchmaking with equally skilled (or unskilled)  opponents.
When a new player with only few days of experience is constantly meeting 5-10 year vets on the field who steamroll him without as much as blinking, it can really scare people away.

At the same time, personally, I hate matchmaking games.

When you are always matched against similar opponents, it gets boring really fast, as you are not getting incentive to improve.

You see, on one side, you are already 'doing ok', (simply because your enemies are at the same skill level), so there isn't much need to improve.

But at the same time, even if you try to improve, you don't get rewarded for it, you see no results - because you are just matched against stronger opponents, it seems like despite all your efforts nothing has changed, you are still 'just doing ok'.
Well, I guess your 'rating' or whatever gets higher, but noone cares about some arbitrary number if you can't feel that you became stronger on the field.
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« Reply #109 on: October 13, 2015, 07:42:43 pm »

I think it has been pointed out alot before but let me do it one more time to emphasize its urgency:

1st Be careful with the melee system. I donīt know wether it was an accident or on purpose, but the melee system in savage 1 is perfect. I could do this forever. Trying to increase its complexity in savage 2 did not work well in my eyes and was one of the major reasons the savage 1 player base did not migrate to its successor. This does not mean that you should not change it or make a new one, but what ever you do, look at what you did in savage 1, try to find out why people are still playing this and BE CAREFUL with whatever you throw at us as the new melee system.

2nd Commanding is awesome in Savage 1. As a commander you have countless possibilities to play a map. You can rush, turtle, go for the long game or push from the very first second. There are many ways to decide a match as a commander and even after 12 years, new ways are still emerging. Please keep it that way (or make it even better)!

I sincerely stand by this statement! S2, take my money!


^^ This all over !
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Ale
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« Reply #110 on: October 14, 2015, 01:13:02 pm »

This is what you missed my little unworthy friend (or should I say Djinghis?):

Please keep the discussion alive.  If S2 were going to make a new game in the Savage series, what should it be?  What should it's core mechanics be?  What % like Savage 1, what % like Savage 2, anything new?
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jazzking
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« Reply #111 on: October 14, 2015, 06:51:25 pm »

Hey String. A good solution might be having both privately hosted servers and matchmaking on official servers like in CSGO. That way you can participate in either format.

One thing I would miss about my suggestion is that the Savage community came to be quite tight-knit and personal. You tend to always see the same players on the same server, and some players prove themselves again and again to be really good. When you come up against them it's scary but all the more rewarding if you succeed. I'm not sure there's any way to recreate this in a game with the large playerbase that S2 is probably hoping to get.

Once you get to a really high level though you tend to play within the same smaller community of elite players. Friends and messaging features also help to build a sense of community.
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impulse
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« Reply #112 on: October 15, 2015, 03:53:47 am »

SAVAGE 3 WOOOOOO. Listen up S2!

I love Savage 1 more than any other game ever, but the whole genre of RTS/FPS S2 created is completely untapped and has infinite potential. You can make something like RTS/FPS Starcraft or Warhammer or even a space game that would be a mix of Homeworld and Freespace where each team has a command ship and players can fly fighters and bombers.

Or you could go back to the roots of Savage 1 and make a modern game out of it. You could probably make a good story, nothing sounds more fun than an epic co-op campaign where you can play missions with a commander and a bunch of team members. I feel it is a must that there be more than two races, and keep adding races over time, like most of today's RTSs. Savage 1 had great combat, but leap and block made it like chess and there was no room for anything else. Keep the tech trees, make sure the combat is deep, skilled, and let different units have unique special abilities like Savage 2 and the Mobas.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 03:58:40 am by impulse » Logged
slaid
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« Reply #113 on: October 18, 2015, 12:55:33 am »

I've seen matchmaking mentioned a few times and out of curiosity - how do you think that would work with Savage?

Personally I would argue against a matchmaking system. 

The first issue would be working out the role of the commander.  Would the commanders be locked in before the match began?  Would they be the only ones allowed into the commanding seat during that match?  What if they had to disconnect before the match was finished?  Could they be impeached?  What would happen if they were impeached? 

Hopefully the community size for matchmaking wouldn't be a problem -but- Savage was always a niche title and "good" matchmaking relies on large numbers of concurrent players online.  If Savage 3 were not an immediately popular title matchmaking could actually hurt the game - I personally don't like spending 30 minutes waiting in a queue. 

I also would miss having dedicated servers for a few reasons:  There wouldn't be the need to re-queue after each match - the server can just load the next map.  There would be server admins.  Individual servers could have custom settings for that specific server.  With Savage the sense of community was helped by having dedicated servers.  I had a few servers that I would always play on and would recognize a good portion of the regular players on those servers. 

What do other people think?  Do people want a MOBA-like matchmaking system?
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biggeruniverse
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« Reply #114 on: October 18, 2015, 03:54:14 am »

What do other people think?

I think you're awesome.

On topic, it's wrong to think in terms of matchmaking. More like buckets or shards. "US West" regional server isn't just one server, but a series of slices (or shards) that fill and split as needed. Slices don't disappear at the end of a match, but keep going until they are empty, or almost empty and then they merge into other slices. Basically, at the physical level, you have multiple instances on the same hardware. US West 1 - 10, US West 11-20, etc. And then the master server handles dumping players into the buckets that have other players of similar level already on them. I think that would be the best way to do things to maintain a savage-like dedicated server feel in a modern match/shard MOBA setup.
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jazzking
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« Reply #115 on: October 18, 2015, 08:42:59 pm »

For more fluid commnder impeach and election votes, you might need a slightly larger group of players than 5v5. This could enable a little bit of fluidity and allow a +-1 difference in player size on each team. 5v5 might be a good size for team matchmaking, esports, etc, but public games could accomodate bigger maps in the 10v10 range.
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Ale
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« Reply #116 on: October 19, 2015, 01:13:57 pm »

30 vs 30 mass fights are still fun though.
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slaid
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« Reply #117 on: October 20, 2015, 04:35:37 pm »

lol, bigger

The idea of slices is awesome and would pretty much solve my previous concerns.  One specific thing I'd like to see using that system would be 2 different buttons - one that automatically assigned the player to a server based on their skill level - and the other would give the player the ability to select their own server from the server list.  I'm guessing the majority of players would press the first button and just get an assigned server but it would  still accommodate people like me with the second button. 

Hopefully S2 picks up on that system or already had something similar in mind.

jazzking you have a very good point, especially for pub games, that a larger player count is a good idea.  I was originally envisioning sitting in a matchmaking lobby waiting for 64 slots to fill up and I couldn't see that working out very well. 

but with your comment and Godforsaken's it brings up an interesting point -
What's the best default size for a game of Savage?  Should Savage 3 still have 64 person servers?  how about 128 person servers?  or should it be the 10v10 of competitive Savage?
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meankitty
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« Reply #118 on: October 26, 2015, 12:17:17 pm »

Quote
What's the best default size for a game of Savage?  Should Savage 3 still have 64 person servers?  how about 128 person servers?  or should it be the 10v10 of competitive Savage?

from my experince on savage 2 40-60 players in a match is probably the best option

it's just enough cheos for new players to learn the basics without dying and just enough players to make the game's meta dominating, this way you are keeping the competitive still in the game
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Epoks
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« Reply #119 on: December 25, 2015, 02:36:35 pm »

Please yes
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