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Author Topic: Proof that Stringer aimbots  (Read 11261 times)
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« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2013, 03:01:21 pm »

let me guess nanaa, you're hired by the FBI or the CIA to catch hackers of a game which is completely free ?

yeah right i mean do something more usefull in your life instead of wasting time.

I've been in this game since 2003 with breaks constantly, i've seen people with better aim than stringer and yet i do not complain because once you know how someone plays you know how their aim is. Just because you're not skilled with these stuff and others are doesn't mean you should accuse them publicly. Once those persons read this you think (even if they use cheats) make things easier ? You're talking without thinking really.

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« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2013, 04:23:06 pm »

i'm am open minded but also its eu law that its innocent until proving guilty

Thats a law in most places Tongue. Nanaa just seems hellbent on ruining peoples reputations recently without providing concrete evidence, idk why O.o
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 04:26:29 pm by DarkStar » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2013, 07:28:32 pm »

Heh, after previous thread, and with some people keep calling me out, I kinda knew the this was coming xD
With my aim and overall game play improving lately, it was only a question of time.
Meh, even that game where I had 3.7 kills per minute with savage is enough, regardless of fact I was farming scavs xD

OKay, so.
Wall of text inc.

The "360 shot" in the start as you call it, indeed looks weird. Most people won't even see it because it was almost instant.

I can assure you though, I definitely didn't rotate 360 on my screen.
I do get random changes of directions sometimes. You should see that if you spec me often. I usually also stop after it, and rotate very fast in different directions, trying to get rid of it. (It happens when a piece of dust/hair from one of my cats gets in the way of mouse sensor so it goes crazy)
But that's never precisely 360....

The only reason I can think why the 360 would be in demo is following:
(This is only guessing, based on general knowledge, but that's the best guess I managed to come up with)

As any network game, savage is asynchronous, and relies on approximation to display smooth movements of other players on your screen.
As far as I know, savage servers run on 20 fps. That means, that the server only updates positions of players 20 times a second. Yet, the players figures on your screen moves smoothly. How does that work?

Well, the general idea is that your client uses data from the two last updates it received from the server to interpolate current position of each player, and displays them in that position on your screen. That why if you suddenly lose connection, players on your screen continue to run in a straight line - in lack of new updates from the server, your client continues to interpolate from the only data it has.

It works nice with positions, because, if first you was in position A, then in position B, then the interpolation is quite simple: the best guess is that you moved in a straight line from A to B.

It is more tricky however, with directions.
Imagine, in first update from server, the direction the player was facing was 0 degrees (in world coordinates or w/e).
But then you moved your mouse really fast (or you just have high sensitivity), and in the next update, (20 updates per second - pretty slow actually), the direction has changed and is now 180 degrees. So, he turned exactly 180 between updates.

So, obviously, he was rotating. But did he rotate left, or right?.... It is unknown.
Server (and then your client, which spectate said player) can only guess.

I do not recall that exact moment, but it is quite safe to assume that the actual mouse movement I made there was a little movement to the right, because that's where the target was.

So, your client received 2 updates about my direction: original, and one a bit to the right of original one.
However, instead of interpolating the most obvious movement, as in, turning a bit to the right, it decided that I actually made a (almost) full 360 turn, to get from direction A to direction B. So it shown you exactly that.

Why did it decide this way, is a mystery to me.
I believe it will take a detailed dump of packets flowing from server to your computer, and access to savage code to actually figure that out.

I do know however, that savage code responsible for direction prediction is quite tricky. I think you remember more than one occasion where even you, yourself, blocked seemingly with your back: The block did happen, but you are looking away from the attacking beast.
I can only guess, but I guess that's also the case of interpolation gone wrong, either interpolation of your direction, or the interpolation of that beast. Except this time it should be happening on server, not your local client.

It also worth mentioning, that there are a few techniques one can use to aim in computer games, mostly psychological. Like, attaching your eyes to crosshair, or following the spot where target will be with your eyes, and some other.
I utilize what I call the "snapshot" technique: The idea is that you keep crosshairs somewhere near the target, but your hand is overly relaxed. Then, when you see a good opportunity (a beast just finishing a leap and will be stationary for a moment, etc), you make a very quick, very short last move to the target current position, pressing the button at same time. With practice, that "last-moment-aim" becomes a reflex, a really fast one.
Obviously, this only works well with single-shot weapons, hence why I prefer coil/discharger and sometimes even scattergun, and not flux/repeater.

You also mentioned something about melee, about me looking directly to the enemy and what not.
Well, that depends really. If you make a movie where I fight someone alone, not interrupted by other stuff, then it will most likely look that way, because in this case, my whole attention is fixated on that single enemy and I can see his direction and predict his movements pretty well. That's also reason I find duels boring.
In case where someone was shooting me, or two/more guys were attacking me, however, this should not be true, because then I try to track and predict them both (or how many are there), which results in either me trying to chose facing that will block them both, or trying to quickly switch from one to another.
One more thing about melee: From what I understand, it is quite hard to aimbot melee, because aimbot suggests you are facing directly to your target, but in case of melee, it will just be too slow: Considering the travel time of packets from your client to server, you would be turning _after_ the beast, so when the beast leaps behind your back and hits you, from the server perspective, you will still be in middle of turning after that beast, so no block will happen. On demo you will see the same thing: the guy will be turning after the beast, always looking to where the beast just was, and not where it is now.

Also, DJ already gave you a hint, but again, if you want to actually catch someone, send a message to admins, get them to look into it. It will be way more efficient. After all, they did catch hackers in the past.

Don't start public threads with drama, because they will only alert true cheaters if there are any, and will cause drama, but will not yield results.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 07:37:54 pm by Stringer » Logged

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« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2013, 07:51:33 pm »

The 360 shot could be indeed some frame interpolation issue. I remember someone spectating me in duels who told me that I perform a weird unnecessary 360 flick each time I bounce and attack, although my mouse did only the usual 180 flicks. But it happened only when I pressed jump while I flicked.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 07:54:47 pm by H3027 » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2013, 08:16:44 pm »

Okay, that 360 shot issue is clear. You are right about that.

Your answer for your mouse flicks and melee disappoints me though. I'll have to make a movie afterall.

Bear in mind, that my evidence on you doesn't just limit on that one demo. Since you seem to have some sportmanship left, you decided to play in NSL5 without your bot (at least demo vs om match). I can make a nice comparison video to show how your gameplay is like night and day.

We can lock this thread and continue discussion away from public eye.
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