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Savage: XR is a new patch for Savage, created by the Newerth.com staff. The XR1.1 Client is out now! Download it now!
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Author Topic: Fixing K/D based mis-perception and imbalance  (Read 14566 times)
H3027
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« on: June 14, 2012, 09:25:49 am »

We recently had a guy named Picied complaining about the games balance:
http://www.desura.com/games/savage

He said:
"Maybe I haven't played for long enough, but after about 15 matches humans won... 2. This game is quite heavily imbalanced, giving adventage to beasts. "Humans are better at range". I've seen two legionnaires shooting a single predator (for those not playing - same tier units), the predator just walked up to them and killed them both. And it's not a single situation, it happens all the time."

He also wrote a review (Rating 6):
"A great concept for a game, but the balancing problems pretty much kill it. But please try it for yourself."


Picied is certainly not a single case. This is how newbies perceive the game.
However, we all know that Savage has a surprisingly good balance when the human team is skilled (as mostly seen in clanwars).



1. The precise change you wanna see done, including exact values and item/unit names etc.
In the scoreboard, above the teams kill/death count, add something that indicates the team advantage in playerskill.
In public games teams are usually balanced when humans have around 40% more kills. For instance when the Beast team has 500 kills and the Human team 700 kills, the balance would be good. Let's say the Beast team has 97 kills, the human team 106, then it would look like this:

100(factor-(killsH/killsB)) = 30.7% (overall imbalance)

Beasts: 50(1.4-(106/97)) Team Advantage: 15%
Humans: -50(1.4-(106/97)) Team Advantage: -15%


2. What triggered it (what is the CAUSE that made you think of something to eliminate that cause)
When team scores aren't even there's usually a lot of whining, often resulting into team scores being even, because most people want balanced games. However, Savage is an asymmetric game, Beasts have half HP and much higher mobility - if they don't die more the team balance is in almost all cases heavily in favour of Beasts.


3. The predicted overall effect of your change (its PURPOSE).
My suggestion aims at adjusting the K/D based mis-perception to something more accurate. Beasts will be less stacked and there will be more Human wins. It will vastly improve the public image Savage XR has as an imbalanced broken game.


The impact on the game:
4. What will become harder (or easier) to do, and for whom (units, teams etc).
With a more skilled and balanced team it will be more likely for human commanders to use offensive tactics and less playing for draws.

5. Will it make the game harder or easier for newbies (vs. veterans), and why.
It will be more enjoyable for newbies due to the improved overall balance and due to the newbie friendlier race winning more games.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 09:31:39 am by H3027 » Logged



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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2012, 09:48:17 am »

This is not so much a re-balance change as it is a stack indicator. Anyway, in theory, it's easy to make, at least from a technical P.o.V.

There are a few issues that need to be addressed. For instance, early on, kills may go both ways, depending to rushes and early tactics, throwing the indicator way off in beasts' favor, for instance. Actually, a single kill my upset the 'balance' as it's displayed in that indicator, making it go back and forth.

Another issue is the tier, combined with the players experience. Once reloc is out, humans will die less, and the further tech gets researched the more successfully the hums will be able to whore.

I would take into account the player stats as well, similarly to Sweet!'s Stack-o-meter. As with those newbie servers, you can't rely on K:D as the holy grail of indicators.
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2012, 10:31:33 am »

Beasts win much more matches? Did I miss anything?
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Daemon
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2012, 12:35:11 pm »

Yes, but this is an attempt at visually indicating to new players the way TEAMS (not RACES) are balanced, in each game. This way, they will understand that beasts are supposed to have fewer kills and still be able to win or have an even game.

However that guy Piciek was complaining that hums don't stand a chance, not that beasts have too few kills.
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H3027
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2012, 01:08:52 pm »

Yeah, the whole point of that suggestion is indeed that most people stack without realizing it. Such an indicator would help reducing stacks.

Piciek was complaining about Beasts winning and being able to kill with ease, which is essentially the same as teams being stacked a lot and being able to blindside the weaker team. However, as a newbie he tends to blame the game and not the players naturally.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 01:10:44 pm by H3027 » Logged



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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2012, 03:37:36 pm »

  When i was a newb, i thought that beasts is a bit stronger, but later i have released that humans is overpowered.
But i never said that beasts is dominating rase.Serious, what a shit, casual faggots always say that offence is inbalanced and overpowered, braindead kids never manage to count how defence is strong and annoying.
  That picie wasnt got into game, to say that humans is weaker, humans may seem weaker, just because they camp, humans is based for campers, and humans win less because they always camp.Humans do no attempts, they simply build shield towers, fluxing incoming sac attacks and repairing towers.And after 25min of raiding, beasts manage to probe humans defences, then humans moan that beasts is overpowered...But...Beasts had to constant attack humans entire 25mins, while if beasts would skip atleast 1 catapult, they were fucked hard.To destroy humans, beast must unconditionally control all territory and make humans loose gold.To destroy beasts, is enought to pass few siege, and thats it...
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