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Author Topic: S16: Tech buildings under attack have reduced productivity  (Read 4394 times)
Daemon
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« on: June 27, 2011, 10:37:41 pm »

Suggested by: Tirza

1. The precise change you wanna see done, including exact values and item/unit names etc.
Beast buildings are alive, they are organic structures. Attacking tech buildings with melee leads to a 30% reduction of productivity, with siege to a 60% reduction. Beast buildings will additionally have a reduced productivty based on their health. Everything above 80% HP will be 100% productivty, 1% HP will be 20% productivty. Regular ranged attacks make no difference. Attacking spawn points (lair, sublair) with melee leads to not being able to spawn with behes due to the painfully cramped plant not be able to let huge units pass (that cramped effect lasts 5 seconds after a melee attack). As long as a spawn point is under siege, the lair will slow down it's productivity (research speed) to 50% to give all sublairs the force to let all units spawn. If the lair itself is under siege, the same will happen. If the lair is under melee attack, its productivity will be reduced by 15% and behes will be unable to spawn.
Human buildings will have a reduced productivty based on their health. Everything above 80% HP will be 100% productivty, 1% HP will be 20% productivty. They don't have reduced productivity while being attacked since the buildings aren't organic. Killing arsenal only affects the productivity for archery weapons, not mag, elec and chem. To decrease their research speed the enemy has to kill the tech building.

2. What triggered it (what is the CAUSE that made you think of something to eliminate that cause)
Both races spend too much time pmining base in early game, since there is not much reward for approaching the enemy base - especially for humans: everything more than a scout is a waste of time and a lack of pmined ressources. Unlike Beasts, Humans have to spend much ressources into towers. Beasts have inferior defensive buildings, however a good defensive unit (behemoth), a unit that is these days getting used in more situation than it should be.

3. The predicted overall effect of your change (its PURPOSE).
My suggestion will reward offensive play in early game for both races, especially by humans which are able to slow the tech down already by attacking it. Furthermore it will address behespawning against non-siege units while still allowing them to spawn to tank siege shots.

4. What will be harder to do, and for which side.
It will be harder for beasts to play mindlessly offensive, as well as for humans to play mindlessly defensive. It will be harder to defend with behes against regular units.

5. What will be easier to accomplish, and by whom.
Teamplay will be more rewarding for both races - proportionally to their speed disadvantage. It will be easier to approach a sublair without wasting all ammo on a spawning behe (and then still having to reloc).

6. Will it make the game harder or easier for newbies (vs. veterans), and why.
It will be harder for newbies to get frags with behes.

7. Subsequent changes needed to tone down (compensate for) the effects of this change.
None

8. Other changes, which the current suggestion depends on so it can work properly.
None
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H3027
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2011, 11:20:00 pm »

I forgot to mention: of course the whole productitity reduction on attack could be also based on damage per second, which would reduce the research speed more the more units attack.

And of course the behe spawn protection for sublairs and lairs would also work for spawn flags (since they are captured by melee too). Actually the spawn protection could be just long enough to allow the opponents to recapture the flag again. So only when the beast team cleared the field around the flag and protected it for a longer time, behes will be able to spawn.

When you play a behe there could be a little count down on the minimap next to each attacked/captured spawn point.

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Hakugei
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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2011, 11:45:42 pm »

I like the anti-behe spawn measure, but I'm rather hesitant on the productivity effects.
Would add a lot of variables and complexity to the matter (but not in a good way, I'd believe).
Values would also have to be balanced and adjusted (which is more than a quick and simple matter).

So many things you'd have to pay attention to, and a single scout could ruin a whole rush merely by suiciding onto a building. :p (If I understood correctly.)
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KQ
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2011, 07:25:09 am »

mhmhm.... i'd like the anti-behespawning...but the rest....phuuu so a commanders just have to rush...because if you build a garrison with humans in front of Beastbase, they cant get some defending tech, because the productivity is reduced...
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phuck
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 04:53:05 pm »

as a well respected behe-spawner i have to vote no on this one Grin
pro lego with a buff, how the fuck you can stop him then? sit back and watch while he rapes the shit out of your sub? Cheesy
where as productivity shit goes, i think it doesn't need changing cause it might unbalance game in an unwanted way :/
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H3027
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2011, 08:07:31 pm »

I like the anti-behe spawn measure, but I'm rather hesitant on the productivity effects.
Would add a lot of variables and complexity to the matter (but not in a good way, I'd believe).
Values would also have to be balanced and adjusted (which is more than a quick and simple matter).

So many things you'd have to pay attention to, and a single scout could ruin a whole rush merely by suiciding onto a building. :p (If I understood correctly.)

Well, there are a lot possible solutions. For instance the productivity of a building could only be reduced if 2 or 3 attack it at once (with a certain dps). So a single scout wouldn't matter, however teamplay would. We could also remove the productivity reduction based on building health completely etc
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Hakugei
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2011, 08:10:12 pm »

Basically, the offensive and/or winning team would gain a further advantage.
Is this correct?
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H3027
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2011, 08:14:40 pm »

Well, this productivity reduction will mainly happen when it isn't clear who will win (early game). In late game, when most weapons are researched, this isn't as crucial anymore. But when everyone pmines, there would be an offensive alternative from which the team would profit just as much as from gaining ressources.
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First Witch: When shall we three meet again / In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
Second Witch: When the hurlyburly's done, / When the battle's lost and won.
KQ
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2011, 09:47:10 am »

i think, go play chess...damn if we play puchit...its always the same with fucking Siege. there we need something new.. but for normal games it isnt bad at start to pmine, fast tech makes the game interesting...if all just do a rush, the games are boring...(especially firerush).
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Feathers
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2011, 05:10:37 pm »

i think, go play chess...damn if we play puchit...its always the same with fucking Siege. there we need something new.. but for normal games it isnt bad at start to pmine, fast tech makes the game interesting...if all just do a rush, the games are boring...(especially firerush).

thats a map problem mate Smiley
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KQ
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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2011, 09:35:00 am »

i know...xD just to say ..xD hehe wink
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