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Author Topic: S15: Chaplins have aura giving morale bonus  (Read 27056 times)
Daemon
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« on: June 27, 2011, 10:36:10 pm »

Suggested by: Tirza

1. The precise change you wanna see done, including exact values and item/unit names etc.
Add an moral area boost (20% faster building for NPCs and players - mining and repairing stays unaffected, effect can't be stacked - the attack speed/building animation won't be 20% faster ofc) and ammo area regen for chaplins (30 seconds to fill up ammo - without ammo pack, 60 seconds with ammo pack, effect can't be stacked). When two are more chaplins are in a group - the other boosts won't stack - but all siege units in that area will move as fast as regular units.

2. What triggered it (what is the CAUSE that made you think of something to eliminate that cause)
In the human team a guy with weapons and medkits is usually more worth than a healer. The chaplin can't just jump into battle like the shaman due to his racial speed disadvantage and the poitions aren't as good as the shaman shield that can even protect buildings.

3. The predicted overall effect of your change (its PURPOSE).
It will make chaplins just as useful as shamans. (And no, shamans don't need to give mana regen, the game is asymmetric, each race has its own way of victory.)

4. What will be harder to do, and for which side.
It will be harder to make the whole human team instantly getting out of ammo by spawning with a 5000 HP behemoth to defend a sublair (which can't be meleed either).

5. What will be easier to accomplish, and by whom.
Humans moving as a team will be more rewarding with chaplins. They will be able to travel further and to accomplish more without having to reloc for ammo or health.

6. Will it make the game harder or easier for newbies (vs. veterans), and why.
My suggestion addresses general imbalances independent from the skill of the player.

7. Subsequent changes needed to tone down (compensate for) the effects of this change.
None

8. Other changes, which the current suggestion depends on so it can work properly.
None
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Hakugei
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2011, 11:39:37 pm »

I'm all up for making Chaplains more useful and viable as an alternative tech line.
Not sure if those boosts are worth sacrificing the raw power of a combat unit.
An experiment would show.
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H3027
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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2011, 11:47:18 pm »

I'm all up for making Chaplains more useful and viable as an alternative tech line.
Not sure if those boosts are worth sacrificing the raw power of a combat unit.
An experiment would show.

Slightly increasing the stamina for chaplins would allow them to approach the fallen units faster - just like the shaman with his leap (which is the main reason shaman is so useful).
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2011, 07:26:25 am »

i'm agree with Tirza...more stamina for Chaps will help them..and make it balanced
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phuck
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 05:23:07 pm »

well beast is a melee race therefore shamies are design to revive close combat units
where as human race has better ranged attack and i think healers are designed to heal siege units while legos push forward, but that isn't what usually happens Smiley

and i think shamies should heal hp and mana too, so that more beasts could use ranged weapons and support their melee teamates, cause now if you pick ranged weapon and use your all mana up and die, then there is no point for shamie reviving you since won't be able to do much with those 4-5 leaps other than providing more gold to eneme team Undecided plus ranged newbies would be more helpful after revival since they wouldn't charge at lego slashing air with their boneswords Cheesy
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H3027
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2011, 08:01:23 pm »

well beast is a melee race therefore shamies are design to revive close combat units
where as human race has better ranged attack and i think healers are designed to heal siege units while legos push forward, but that isn't what usually happens Smiley

Both healers are there to revive units, no matter whether their team mates prefer to fight in close combat or ranged combat. Chaplins just as Shamans are pure melee units, while the reviving skill of one massively profits from the definitory difference of his race. I'm not saying they should be able to charge in as fast, but it shouldn't be on a level where chaplins are barely useful. Remember that the support of a chaplin has to be as effective (preferably more effective since the comm wastes stone to research them) than an additional fighting unit, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense to research them.

and i think shamies should heal hp and mana too, so that more beasts could use ranged weapons and support their melee teamates, cause now if you pick ranged weapon and use your all mana up and die, then there is no point for shamie reviving you since won't be able to do much with those 4-5 leaps other than providing more gold to eneme team Undecided plus ranged newbies would be more helpful after revival since they wouldn't charge at lego slashing air with their boneswords Cheesy

Beasts are supposed to die more since they travel faster. If you want to keep the map 50% in human and 50% in beast hands, humans will have to kill around 30-50% more beasts (depending on how much gold beasts pick up) to achieve this (unless the commander helps with towering up).
Beasts are - as you mentioned above - a melee race. I hence see no reason to improve the ranged mana additionally, especially since the shaman is already useful enough.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 08:04:32 pm by H3027 » Logged



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Second Witch: When the hurlyburly's done, / When the battle's lost and won.
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« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2011, 04:17:48 pm »

want improve and balance healers- go here
http://server.groentjuh.eu/viewtopic.php?t=247&start=15
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Renegade
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2011, 03:38:18 pm »

that'd make some commanders rush chaplains for quicker tech build and have a really deep impact on the commanding style. Think about that too.. Since %20 building for each player/worker's nothing small. But it's pretty good about that ammo supplement aura.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 06:45:57 pm by Renegade » Logged

Daemon
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2011, 06:33:59 pm »

How do you explain that men of the cloth, spiritual guides and against using other weapons than a mere stick for defense, carry around huge-ass arsenals with rockets, slugs, energy packs, arrows and whatnot, which is against their purpose - and training - of healing and not mass destruction.
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2011, 07:06:55 pm »

you made your point clear,
 but tirza's ideas was just one way to improve the lost attractiveness of healers and i'm pretty much sure she'll comeback with something more realistic if that's what you seek.

 But please don't miss savage has chiprels which drops goodie-bags when dead. and 1 goodie bag alone is 10 times bigger than a chiprel. oh also they contain, arrows-rockets-electricity and all.
that makes me think chaplains can carry hundreds of goodie bags too  Afro
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Daemon
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2011, 11:06:30 pm »

It's against their nature! And that's coming from an atheist. Just keep things straight, damnit! Smiley

I agree to the following bonuses given by auras (even though it's not DotA Smiley )
- speed
- stamina
- health
- damage
- regen

But not ammo! If you really want them to somehow get involved with ammo - fine! I'll give you a suggestion!

"Chaplins get a 5th item - Rally Flag. Inside a given area around the Rally Flag they place (just like sensors), humans using the same weapons get to 'share' their ammo, like squads often do when defending a position. This would only happen when enemies are not inside the active range. Sharing means: once a second or a few seconds (or when hitting the flag), the total amount of a specific type of ammo present in the inventories of teammates inside the area gets evenly distributed among them."

Say you got a nomad with 100 flux ammo and a lego with 200 flux ammo. When they hit the Rally Flag, they both end up with 150 ammo each.

How's that for a suggestion? It does increase the efficiency of ammo usage.

We'd have to give something to shammies as well, to make them worth while. Like a ward of sorts, that slowly replenishes stamina around it.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 11:12:30 pm by Daemon » Logged

Renegade
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2011, 03:49:57 am »

nice idea with that rally flag!
but instead sharing how about changing the purpose like each hits gives you %5 ammo but flag fades away in 5-7 seconds, it won't be a BIG  help for legionnaries if we make a cooldown of 30/45 seconds to put another flag back.

Oh, and a good stamina regenaration aura for a short period of time can help chaplains aswell.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 03:54:31 am by Renegade » Logged

Daemon
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2011, 07:39:04 am »

Well the flag would give off ammo if it was a re-supply / re-arming station, placed by an engineer or something. Otherwise it's just a flag Cheesy.
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2011, 01:00:03 pm »

aye, but stamina boost area for shammies is a good up, but sharing ammo has both ups and downs:(
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2011, 01:05:12 pm »

chaplins are meant to heal not be ammo depots. So my idea is to upgrade healer units current options when the lair/sh is at tier 3 to something more powerful. ie. mass revive(small radius tho)
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