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Author Topic: DISCUSS: Balancing Philosophy ~ An Open and General Discussion  (Read 15071 times)
Aneurysm
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« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2011, 12:48:40 pm »

Yes, I think it is possible to use the same balance for public and competitive servers.

And no i don't think so.  Afro

Rather than just disagreeing could you please constructively elaborate as to why you think it isn't possible.
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Hakugei
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« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2011, 03:14:49 pm »

It does seem fairly possible.
Question is merely the map choices. Smiley
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lololol
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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2011, 05:28:59 am »

Beast wins vs Human wins philosophy

http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,12678.0.html
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Daemon
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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2011, 09:56:58 am »

No offense lololol, but that topic has nothing to do with philosophy Smiley.
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lololol
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« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2011, 06:11:43 pm »

No offense lololol, but that topic has nothing to do with philosophy Smiley.
you are wrong Deamon Smiley ,that link is pure philosophy!
except only one your comment where no any philosophy , only pure business problems solving stuff ..  Tongue
Spot a problem >> Find a solution >> Post it in the Re-balancing section >> Let others discuss it >> Provide devs with a solid analysis to review.
Other than that it's just wasted finger-work.
 
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Feathers
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« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2011, 09:33:40 pm »

thats statistics lololol Smiley
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Mohican
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« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2011, 11:13:55 am »

Can people try to focus more on contributing to the debate, and less on criticising others?
 Smiley
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Wargoddess
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« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2011, 10:09:13 pm »

Well here are my 2 cents , not that anyone listened to me before.. I have been playing this game from the start almost.
One of the biggest problems is all the people that alias due to lag issues.  People kick others in order for them not to be dropped from the server.  It is really extremely un fair and how do you expect Newbies to even stay and learn this game when veteran players treat them this way.( all because the Vet ,ie lamer can't stay connected because he has crappy pc
and or crappy ISP.  or maybe both!  Shocked
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Peace, WAR!
Necrofears
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« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2012, 03:16:58 am »

alright- first off I think before we start talking about "balancing" I think we need to outline what we can agree are the inherint differences of each race and their play style.

Defence

Humans - a larger focus on damage reduction (sheild towers, blocking) all attempts to lower the base damage of incoming attacks.
Beasts - they have a focus on passive regeneration (heal spires, rabid, mana). as such when taking damage and left to their own devices beast will regenerate with limited player input.

Offence

Humans - they benefit from greater damage over time (DoT)
Beasts - they focus on a greater single shot damage output or spike damage.

Melee

Humans - human focus is on holding their ground.
Beasts - a focus on rapid movement in and out.

Seige

Humans - their seige engins focus on fast damage with limited ammunition, thus they can eject from their seige unit and continue to fight as a nomad when all ammunition is depleted
Beasts - they have unlimited seige damage output with lower spike damage, in comparison to humans. this is accomplished by a lower base damage output by summoners and a reduced effective rang of a behe.

I feel that these are the given dynamics of each race (not inbalances) beyond that I think we can focus on the weapons and items and see if they suport the given race's dynamic or not.
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Renegade
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« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2012, 12:29:43 am »

Melee
Humans - human focus is on holding their ground.

that varies on your playstyle.I would never recommend this for duelling, but that's my opinion
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Necrofears
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« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2012, 03:44:22 am »

that wasn't meant to display how you play, it was meant to establish how the humans were intended to be played, you can derive this from the fact hums can't move when blocking, while leap moves you.
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Daemon
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« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2012, 08:52:23 am »

You're looking at it completely the wrong way. The point is not holding your ground - after all, if you're 5K away from base, you got nothing to defend. Humans' paradigm is just that: blocking. As in canceling beasts' attacks, so they can have a shot at attacking upon successfully surviving the attacks themselves.

While beasts have no "out", as far as "fast in and out" is concerned. They only need to get there, kill their enemies in mere seconds, and move along just as quickly. There's not going back or retreating or moving away after your enemies are dead. You don't have the time or the need for it.

Anyway, these are but nuances. The game is really quite properly balanced. Slightly improving things that are really unused is one thing, pretending a mass-rebalancing of weapons and what not can be done, is a resolution of a delusional individual.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 08:53:54 am by Daemon » Logged

Necrofears
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« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2012, 10:05:07 pm »

whatever you think we can agree that the melee dynamics of both races are different.. moving on.

I think the game is relatively balanced, my argument is the fact that there are people on both sides of the aisle that think it's unbalanced is proof enough.

a personal preference would be ammo rebalancing. it would be minor enough pros wouldn't care and noobs might get some enjoyment in using the weapons that seem cool but run out of ammo fast (rupture for instance).

I think all weapons could use a 10% ammo boost (or 1 extra shot for those with less than 10)
the exceptions I would say are
crossbows
mmbow
discharger
flux
coil
ember
blaze
frost
tempest
lightning

I also think that flux could be 200 base instead of 250 and that would be the extent of my changes.

Disclaimer: 10% is an arbitrary number for argument sake, each weapon could use it's own relative boost in ammo.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 10:06:48 pm by Necrofears » Logged

Daemon
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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2012, 10:11:59 pm »

We don't want to make Savage too much of a ranged weapons game. Human weapons really don't need much more ammo. And 2 changes were already made regarding that:
1. Mana crystal became usable. Besides the slow mana regain it gives while wearing it, you can throw it and it breaks into 3 mana crystals on impact. This way, you or a teammate will regain 45 mana back.
2. Ammo packs now allow hums to fully refill ammo by picking up crates over the previous 50% limit. 1 ammo crate = 10% ammo so i guess this works Tongue.
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Necrofears
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« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2012, 12:47:49 am »

well you could increase the stamina and health gained per hit, but I think carn and rabid are strong enough, realistically you could increase the damage the venom puts out as it would have little to no impact in the current game use.

as for the mana crystal idea, I'm not really on board because it really doesn't make the other weapons more viable in the heat of the moment

as for ammo pack, if they did that great, but what I know is that this has been this was since savage 2.00a because in savage 1.0 you could actually pick up the ammo beyond the 50% according to your statement without having an ammo pack (i.e. you have 250 flux at start, you kill a monkit that has an ammo crate, you now have 275 flux ammo and no ammo pack taking up a slot) in said example weapons like flux pulse and mmbow benefit greatly from this (trust me I did it a lot). if they can fix the ammo problem great.

also not trying to make it a ranged game, it's just that a lot of weapons go unused and they just happen to be ranged. while your typical newcommer tries everything and is rather dissappointed with the all of 4 seconds of surge.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 12:50:22 am by Necrofears » Logged

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