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Savage: XR is a new patch for Savage, created by the Newerth.com staff. The XR1.1 Client is out now! Download it now!
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Author Topic: New tech line for Savage XR  (Read 19409 times)
Daemon
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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2010, 08:49:23 pm »


So if Savage will die, eventually, why wait, shouldn't we just put it out of its misery right now, and just closed down everything, servers and all, just because they won't live forever?

Even though it was sarcastic, I'd rather see this happen than watching it go further downhill

If you think it's dying, why do you people feel the need to stick around to watch Savage expire, while infecting others with your pessimistic attitudes?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 08:52:11 pm by Daemon » Logged

Takz
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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2010, 10:15:03 pm »




If you think it's dying, why do you people feel the need to stick around to watch Savage expire, while infecting others with your pessimistic attitudes?

I don't "think" it's dying. It's a fact that it is.
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Hakugei
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« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2010, 10:45:29 pm »

From what I see, there's an increaase in new players.
Not to mention that Mohi's FPS patches make XR more popular.
Those facts kind of counter your supposed "facts". :p
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Daemon
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« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2010, 10:52:29 pm »


If you think it's dying, why do you people feel the need to stick around to watch Savage expire, while infecting others with your pessimistic attitudes?

I don't "think" it's dying. It's a fact that it is.

For you, maybe it did. But then, what are you doing here? If it's not working for you anymore, can't you people abstain from ruining it for everyone else? Or do we need to be saved, and you're the one that took it upon himself to open our eyes?

This is a topic for discussing new tech i intend on adding. If you don't have anything better to do but to preach apocalypse, go create a mass-suicide cult.
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phuck
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« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2010, 01:25:35 pm »

I don't know if I personally would play this mod...I tried samurai and extreme and didn't play them much since you need to learn all new tactics and adjust to new game style and I like good old savage too much Cheesy... but one thing I really would like to see implemented in savage is supply depots. Ability to resupply ammo/mana would make for beasts with ranged weapons so much more interesting since they wouldn't need to stay so close to subs to replenish mana fast Smiley... supply depots could also offer ability to switch weapon (but only like few choices randomly picked at the start of match so it wouldn't feel like shopping at garr/sub) and buy additional items (either certain items all time or randomly picked, cause i don't really want humies buying meds at every depot).
also if certain npc would drop ammo/mana all the time then it could be treated as ammo/mana resupplier, cause atm only large groups of chiprels offer similiar capabilities Smiley
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« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2010, 01:30:52 pm »

Yeah, I also had to puzzle about the question why these NPC´s drop so little ammo/mana. It makes going for NPC´s ammo pointless, since you end up with 2 coil shots after killing 5 monkits; Since you want to do that when you are "at the front" its too dangerous to farm those creeps endlessly until you got your ammo full, also going back is way faster...
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Daemon
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« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2010, 10:25:37 pm »

you need to learn all new tactics and adjust to new game style and I like good old savage too much Cheesy... but one thing I really would like to see implemented in savage is supply depots.
I've been putting a lot of thought into this, and i'm not your average brainless modder Tongue. I am focusing my planning on not affecting actual gameplay too much. For example: if you'll face the "roller" unit, the permanently firebuffed ball-like beast, you will already know how to act against it (blocking, relocking, running etc...). If you see an APC incoming, you can pretty much kill it the same way you do with catas, maybe a bit harder. The wooden Mech would have a block and possibly a melee attack so you would be able to rabid it to death.

As for resupply / trading points, there are a whole bunch of modes and uses: buying specific consumables and/or weapons, slowly refilling ammo, regenerating mana/stam/health, trading in one item for another, item merging using upgrades you can find there etc.
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« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2010, 07:40:59 pm »

I like some of these ideas and think that they would make for more interesting gameplay. When i heard that savage 2 was coming out i was hoping it would keep the same savage style, implement new things such as the things you mentioned.

In my opinion i would like to see only 2 things come out of the list that you provided.(i think they are all good ideas i just think that some of the ideas change the feel of savage a bit too much.)

1. Having a unit for both sides that (like the walkers from starwars and the fireball rolling idea) that have mid ranged to close up weapons that deal damage to units and not buildings is a good idea. It would be fun to see a 2 legged wooden machine with a repeater style machine gun attached to the front of it with much more limited range than actual repeaters, charging into battle behind some melee units providing cover fire.(the could be 1.5Xs a flux guns range) I think a heavy unit for both teams with good armor and limited attack power like a armored walker half the size of a behe in height with a  repeater attachd for humans and the light flame buff rolling unit that goes a single speed of a sprinting scav or nomad for beasts and  that support regular units in battle and do little dmg to buildingswould be a new and fun aspect to savage (xr) that would even feel good in NSL.

These units could either be built in

-side not: These units should not be unit killing machines and their weapons should be for supporting units on the battle field by providing cover fire or in the beasts case a melee cover distraction that way you do not have mass numbers of these units on the field mowing eachother down , but having a couple for cover would improve each sides battle.

2. the mana/supply depot stations: I like the strategy in savage 2 that comes along with these stations since it allows the battles to go on for longer. I think they should only allow players to revive their ammunition or not items. IT should not allow players to buy new weapons either. Beasts have a large disadvantage Humans get around this in battle by having the ammo pack and relocator which allows them to shoot for longer periods of time and safely move further away from garrisons with their ranged weapons since they can relocate back to their garrison restock and head back out. If the mana stone allowed beasts to recharge much faster, then i would say the 2 races would be even in that aspect but then their is the medpack for humans which also means humans can stay alive longer in a gun fight before heading back. having these ammunition/man stations would allow the fight for both sides to last longer at further distances form their sublairs/garrisons.

In order to make it work while keeping the same feel of savage(xr) you shouldn't allow any unit other than the three (melee) units for each race ex: scav, stalker, and pred) to replenish in these mana/supply stations. Siege units shoul dbe left out. The only exception to the three basic units for each race would be the Chaplin for humans since he has the health regeneration item. that would be the only item allowed to regenrate for the humans side.

These stations should be treated as commander buildings and the commander should have to spend a small amount of stone say 100-200 stone to have them and they could only be placed a certain distance away from a sub/gar. that way the battle can stay away form the gar/sub but still not allow a commander to plop one down across the map in an opposing teams base . if it stays up after a garr/sub as been destroyed it will still stand until it is destroyed. I think a good distance fomr a sub.gar would be 1.5xs-2xs the distance of a shield or healing spire can protect another spire.

those are the 2 aspects i really liked that seemed to keep the feel of savage(xr) the same, but upgraded the fun and game play. It is unfortunate that others do not understand or can not come to terms that there is a difference from changing a game completely and upgrading or adding new elements to a game to keep the feel the same but adding some interesting strategies that were not available or thought up at the time of the creation of the game.

I hope my opinion helps a little and i look forward to the new elements to savage. new developments will keep the game alive and will continue to bring in new players. The game needs to evolve and though NSL may not use these new elements which is perfectly fine, servers that have 60 players going at at a time will definitely benefit form them.

   





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Daemon
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« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2010, 08:40:28 pm »

Yeah, NightFox, that's certainly a well thought post with interesting ideas which will surely be used be if the mod ever sees the light of day.

Quote from: NightFox
If the mana stone allowed beasts to recharge much faster, then i would say the 2 races would be even in that aspect but then their is the medpack for humans which also means humans can stay alive longer in a gun fight before heading back.

One of the very very few changes i wanna make to the original way items/weapons work, is that I intend on making the Mana Stone provide the same increase in mana it does now, plus making it consumable, meaning you can use it frenzy-style and get your full mana back.

In terms of the way the Roller would be used, i imagined it more like a harassing unit, a fast moving annoyance Smiley, and the Glider more like the frontline tank.
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NightFox
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« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2010, 09:11:01 pm »

i like the idea of heavy armored units that don;t do 1 hit kill dmg and do medium unit dmg. it makes them more of a meatshield than an all powerful noob blasting unit.
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« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2010, 09:30:17 pm »

While this sounds fun and all, I'd much, much prefer fine tuning of the tech trees we have now and proper balance over adding more and more. It's like adding an addition to a house with a crumbling, shaking foundation. First fix the foundation, then add to the house.
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« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2010, 09:52:07 pm »

I just thought of something kind of interesting: what if you made a turret building that a player could control?
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Daemon
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« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2010, 10:03:45 pm »

While this sounds fun and all, I'd much, much prefer fine tuning of the tech trees we have now and proper balance over adding more and more. It's like adding an addition to a house with a crumbling, shaking foundation. First fix the foundation, then add to the house.
Because i don't think the current game needs any tweaking, and as i've already said a million times, this is not a balancing thread. There are a million devs which can work on balancing, i just add stuff. Even if Newerth's policy was to allow balance changes, i would be the most reluctant admin to embrace it. Anyhow, this is a topic about my suggestions to bring a fresh breath of air to the game, any other balance posts will be deleted from discussion topics unrelated to balancing.

But to make it clear where i stand:

EVERY SINGLE SUCCESSFUL GAME relied on new content, including Savage (e.g. medics/shams). Games like Warcraft kept adding new content patches, add-ons etc, to keep players hooked. New stuff will save you, not +/- dmg values in the 7th year of a game's existence. The only reason why you'd want "rebalancing" is cuz you're got tired of the old game. Even when somebody else is gonna do all the work, adding new units/items/stuff, you still reject the idea. But how many players will bring (back) the balance changes?

"Hey, come back to Savage! We got huge surprises in store for you, like the Incinerator damage increase by 12.1% and Rupture now with even more splash!"

vs.

"We've added 8 new units, 4 new buildings, 12 new items, making for new gameplay opportunities and the biggest additions Savage has ever seen!"
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 11:02:45 pm by Daemon » Logged

NightFox
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« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2010, 11:45:34 pm »

Quote
EVERY SINGLE SUCCESSFUL GAME relied on new content, including Savage (e.g. medics/shams). Games like Warcraft kept adding new content patches, add-ons etc, to keep players hooked. New stuff will save you, not +/- dmg values in the 7th year of a game's existence. The only reason why you'd want "rebalancing" is cuz you're got tired of the old game. Even when somebody else is gonna do all the work, adding new units/items/stuff, you still reject the idea. But how many players will bring (back) the balance changes?

I agree completely, If you look at the development of starcraft which did a bunch of their balancing updates early on, once they feel it is finally set they leave it alone. Then came the expansion of broodwar which added new elements to the game with new units like the medics for Terran, lurkers for zerg, and dark temps for protoss and they only tweaked the balance of the NEW UNITS added. not old units.

Savage has had its balancing act and now it is ready for the new developments to take place. Adding these units may imbalance the game a bit, but that is when you tweak the balance of the NEW UNITS not the old ones. Savage is in much need for some NEW strategical changes to the game and not balance changes. The tactics of the 3 tiers and 3 weapons types have been pretty much worn down to the nub. (no not noob haha). I think adding these new units will bring about some new strategies since right now every commander does the same thing over and over and over again since the tactics of the game haven't changed much. The challange of being a commander on ssavage needs a boost and some versatility and i think you are on the right track. I hope you keep in mind that the feel of the game should stay the same because that is what we have grown to love the feel of the melee weapons the feel of the behemoths the feel of the commander commanding real players and not AI. By adding new tactics with the same feel this game will pick  up some new users and bring out the old ones form the woodworks.   






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Daemon
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« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2010, 12:23:10 pm »

I just thought of something kind of interesting: what if you made a turret building that a player could control?

As Kerberos said, careful consideration has to be taken not to veer the game too much towards the use of ranged weapons and away from the melee. This is why i'm already re-thinking some of the ideas i've already posted, like turning the Mech into more of an Aliens IV Resurrection kinda robot than a Starwars Walker, with a nomad controlling it much like Ripley did.

But if technical aspects will allow it, there should be a manned turret on the Battle Platform vehicle.


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