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Savage: XR is a new patch for Savage, created by the Newerth.com staff. The XR1.1 Client is out now! Download it now!
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Author Topic: Intense Game  (Read 39135 times)
AloN
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« on: July 25, 2010, 01:50:53 pm »

Savage really needs to be refreshed! New additions, new ideas that will make it attractive again!
The following ideas would make this more like TF2 with fast paced gameplay and with character progression (which has you probably notice they have huge player base), and might just save this from dying (which already started to happen)

-Think about the whole stats and match going mechanics like in TF2, for example stats need to be more of private concern (instead of showing everything to everyone) that will make players have more aggressive playing instead of just grabbing temp\summ\coil\mmbow\w/e and camping, and introduce some Achievements to the game, not something like TF2 of course, but stuff like "Kill 5 summs in a row in I dunno 2 minutes" which will make players pursue goals that are encouraging aggressive playing style..

-Introduce advanced player progression system, give achievements so player can pursue, give cosmetic rewards for completing those achievements, let players customize their characters, so you'll see variety instead of boring "everyone the same" battles.

-Making some dynamic playing mod\maps for example 1 sub in front of other garr (at some range..) the goal is to destroy the other team garr\sub first, whoever do it first gets jumped (scripted) to a sub on other place and now they fight to destroy the stronghold\lair, so now you have a defending team and attacking team, if sh\lair destroyed attacking team wins, if garr\sub destroyed they get moved again to the previous setting.. <- this is much more better than the old boring build a base, mine, get tech, attack\defend)

I got many more ideas, and I'm sure lots of other people have too, those ideas are just things that popped in my head during playing this and TF2, the differences between the games are wide of course, but gameplay mechanics are something that can be alike..
You can't go wrong with this either, as the game has not that many people playing right now, which all of those are hardcore fans who won't leave so quick (if at all..)

I bring this stuff here so people who just start reading this thread won't go "ZOMG WTF"





Achievements Page! (always updated with more stuff, add your stuff too!)
--------  http://typewith.me/6nDxMCXSec ---------

And the mission based game play:

Start of the "campaign" fight over a bridge to destroy the enemy's garr\sub.


2nd part: after one team destroyed sub\garr, they moved to sub vs sh\garr vs lair. If attacking team fails they return to the previous round!



Btw starcraft2 so soon omg omg omg! Cheesy
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 01:12:36 pm by AloN » Logged

H3027
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« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2010, 02:33:27 pm »

People can't stop trying to optimise Savage gameplay for huge servers. You're trying to cure the symptoms.
Be aware that the Savage gameplay is asymmetric. Each change affects multiple parts of the game.

-Make level 2 weapons available from level 1 lair\stronghold.
Go and play deathmatch or duels? Early game includes nice fights and gives the game variety. Of course people which played on pmine-until-pred-servers all the time won't agree with that.

-Lower the gold requirement for all non siege equipment (including savage\stalker, excluding lego\pred)
Games will last longer, gold starving will become more useless. Remember the french server where you got tons of gold. Beasts were constantly spawning and winning most games just because you had not enough ammo and hp to kill them all and push them back.

-Lower the respawn time (not fun waiting for 20 secs..)
Sacrushes will get even more overpowered, easier to defend subs because beasts constantly spawn and working your way to the sub killing all enemies isn't really rewarding because they spawn 10 seconds later again with full hp and ammo.

-Make Chem\Ent weapons have DoT effects on enemies they hit (making them more useful)
I'm not sure about this one.

-Give mist a dodge chance (25% for example) instead of making them invisible (that will make beasts more aggressive)
God, Savage isn't an MMORPG. Keep it player-skill based please.

-Lower the cost of Subs\Garrs (something like 800 stone+gold) again for more aggressive playing.
Easier for Beasts to sub spamm, combined with insta respawn and lower costs for stalker - lol.

-Give savage and stalkers critical chances (not really sure about that, it can add a lot of intense fighting, but this should really be tested a lot so it won't be insta killing savages..)
God, Savage isn't an MMORPG. Keep it player-skill based please.

-I was also thinking the whole stats and match going mechanics like in TF2, for example stats need to be more of private concern (instead of showing everything to everyone) that will make players have more aggressive playing instead of just grabbing temp\summ\coil\mmbow\w/e and camping, and introduce some Achievements to the game, not something like TF2 of course, but stuff like "Kill 5 summs in a row in I dunno 2 minutes" which will make players pursue goals that are encouraging aggressive playing style..
Yeah, that's a good idea as long as achievements aren't set too high. Don't make an achievement for killing 100 in a row, because that will deform the gameplay in a bad way. I would also like to see achievements for helping new players (which get assigned to you as their official teacher). You would get achievements if they stay at the game and get better (dunno how to implement that in a way that can't get abused).

-Making some dynamic playing maps for example 1 sub in front of other garr (at some range..) the goal is to destroy the other team garr\sub first, whoever do it first gets jumped (scripted) to a sub on other place and now they fight to destroy the stronghold\lair, so now you have a defending team and attacking team, if sh\lair destroyed attacking team wins, if garr\sub destroyed they get moved again to the previous setting.. <- this is much more better than the old boring build a base, mine, get tech, attack\defend)
Mods are always welcome. Play DeathMatch, Instagib or Frenzy.
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Second Witch: When the hurlyburly's done, / When the battle's lost and won.
AloN
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2010, 03:43:04 pm »

Thanks for the comments Smiley

Ok, so first of all I am not saying these ideas need to be in the game the way I put them, experimenting and finding the correct stuff is the key..

The outcomes you said to each idea (about more sac rushes, more spawns, sub\garr spam, etc) is exactly what I want to bring to Savage, the aggressive play style- go to attack, fight in huge battles, don't sit with your summ in your base\sub for 15 mins waiting for people to enter your crosshair..
This will make regular beasts team annihilate defensive incompetent teams, but if a good offensive human team come to picture, it's a different story.. It'll be a very good match!


And with all you said you just reminded me of another problem, which is the Human teams nature to camp, why you said beasts sac rush, beasts sub spam, why not humans? why we don't see humans rushing? only sneak siege rush garrs..

Why?- because the mechanics favor a defensive human team.. I saw only a few commanders\teams in my long history of playing that go for full assault, and you know what? they owned the beasts and those matches were actually the most fun I had in Savage..

Making level 2 weapons available earlier will make battles commence earlier, will make action start quicker..
Lowering gold requirement and respawn time (not that much like you think) will make battles again more huge and epic and fun!
Making changes to weapons and items so they'll have more utility isn't a mmorpg element, you got stuff like that in action brainless games as well (TF2  Rolleyes )

And mods as far as I know, no one play as it always depends on maps, there should be a dedicated server to this.. (and not all mods, just the gameplay I advised)
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H3027
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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2010, 05:26:49 pm »

The outcomes you said to each idea (about more sac rushes, more spawns, sub\garr spam, etc) is exactly what I want to bring to Savage, the aggressive play style- go to attack, fight in huge battles, don't sit with your summ in your base\sub for 15 mins waiting for people to enter your crosshair..
Play on smaller servers without 10 fluxes against you at once, you will see a lot more agressive gameplay.

And with all you said you just reminded me of another problem, which is the Human teams nature to camp, why you said beasts sac rush, beasts sub spam, why not humans? why we don't see humans rushing? only sneak siege rush garrs..
Again, server size problem. Humans don't garr spam because they have a speed disadvantage and because of this they also have it harder to secure the resources fast enough. If you want to fix that, nerf the speed advantage of beasts or increase the speed of humans (aka Savage 2), however that's boring. These definitory differences make Savage interesting.

Why?- because the mechanics favor a defensive human team.. I saw only a few commanders\teams in my long history of playing that go for full assault, and you know what? they owned the beasts and those matches were actually the most fun I had in Savage..
They can do that anytime on smaller servers on bigger servers only with a - for a pub game - unrealistic amout of teamplay.

Making level 2 weapons available earlier will make battles commence earlier, will make action start quicker..
Not everyone pmines each game like you do. The action starts immediately especially if mining xp is set lower.

Lowering gold requirement and respawn time (not that much like you think) will make battles again more huge and epic and fun!
Lowering prices of units reduces the reward of killing enemies and also increases the effectivity of the team that has speed advantage already - short: it harms the balance.

Making changes to weapons and items so they'll have more utility isn't a mmorpg element, you got stuff like that in action brainless games as well (TF2  rolleyes )
Yes, statistic probability i.e. luck based gameplay is indeed an MMORPG element. Dodge chance and critical chance is a no-go.
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AloN
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2010, 05:46:21 pm »

I think we play different games.. You always say play X server, Y server, at the moment I'm looking on the servers list I see only 1 server populated, and it's like that most of the day if not all..

Now according to human commanders and teams playing aggressively, I just commanded this human team today, went totally aggressive right into the central stone mine and we won that game, and it was very action intense as I could have seen from the commander's view point. (not stack, not noob commander other team, not ultra skilled players on my team, not bla bla bla)

According to earlier battles, usually everyone will stay for pmine and only few will go scouting and attacking, but that really depends on the actual map your playing on.

According to the lowering gold requirements, I think your right, and I think it's better to increase the gold you get from killing enemies, that will encourage players to engage enemies more often, as he needs the gold.

Btw leave the whole MMORPG stuff please, it's really not only MMORPG games have this stuff.
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H3027
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2010, 06:00:51 pm »

I think we play different games.. You always say play X server, Y server, at the moment I'm looking on the servers list I see only 1 server populated, and it's like that most of the day if not all..
Yes AloN, I rarely played your Savage. That's why I'm still here.

Now according to human commanders and teams playing aggressively, I just commanded this human team today, went totally aggressive right into the central stone mine and we won that game, and it was very action intense as I could have seen from the commander's view point. (not stack, not noob commander other team, not ultra skilled players on my team, not bla bla bla)
I can understand when human commanders on huge pubs go defensive, there's too much spam and players are spread all over the map. It's just too risky and if your tactic fails you've pretty much lost.

According to earlier battles, usually everyone will stay for pmine and only few will go scouting and attacking, but that really depends on the actual map your playing on.
It's actually the same on every map. Most people pmine until sac or tempest, some until pred lol. I rarely see fights in early game.

According to the lowering gold requirements, I think your right, and I think it's better to increase the gold you get from killing enemies, that will encourage players to engage enemies more often, as he needs the gold.
Yes, rather increasing gold instead of xp and lowering respawntimes. However, I'd rather suggest XR to support servers which match different skill levels, so the gold issue is solved.

Btw leave the whole MMORPG stuff please, it's really not only MMORPG games have this stuff.
Yeah, MMORPGs and RPG action games and other game genres that don't fit to Savage.
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AloN
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2010, 06:10:14 pm »

You contradict yourself there..


"Not everyone pmines each game like you do. The action starts immediately especially if mining xp is set lower."

And now

"I rarely see fights in early game."

Few games now that I played, most of the action starts when humans get savage\flux\repeater and when beasts get stalker\temp\blaze\melee stuff.

Look, we can continue to talk about it in theory, but the only way of seeing if it's good or not is testing it.
I give from my playing experiences that usually when humans camp it's boring, when humans charge in and garr a rather distant mine not far from beasts zone it's more intense, more action, more fun, which is the reason why we play this right?

+ Try to look at it from a new player perspective, and not a veteran like yourself, it's very hard to change something you are used to.
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2010, 06:25:41 pm »

Ok, I followed your post, and I have to say that I don't understand you, Alon.
Not the gameplay or the game itself is the problem, the players, are the main problem.
Have you ever played a clanwar, or have you played Savage with a few friends over LAN? Looking at your post, I don't think so.
And you say that G&G is the only popular server in Savage. Have you ever joined a Multiplay.co.uk Savage server? There you don't get as much experience for mining and building, and mostly all players fight from beginning to the end.
Same for a clanwar. I've played only a few clanwars, but there was no real lategame, mostly we fought with nomads/scavengers.
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Enliven
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2010, 06:27:41 pm »

All these suggestions are terrible. Savage is as intense as you want to play it.
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2010, 06:39:46 pm »

All these suggestions are terrible. Savage is as intense as you want to play it.

This is the best sentence I heard today. Thank you =)
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Trigardon
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2010, 06:45:34 pm »

All these suggestions are terrible. Savage is as intense as you want to play it.

What he said.
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H3027
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2010, 06:48:13 pm »

You contradict yourself there..
I'm not, I'm talking about different server sizes and server settings and about their influence on the gameplay.

Few games now that I played, most of the action starts when humans get savage\flux\repeater and when beasts get stalker\temp\blaze\melee stuff.
Correct, that's has to do with server size and server settings.

Look, we can continue to talk about it in theory, but the only way of seeing if it's good or not is testing it.
Yeah, to see it we would have to test it, but for some reason we have our imagination. And not everything has to be tested to be judged.

I give from my playing experiences that usually when humans camp it's boring, when humans charge in and garr a rather distant mine not far from beasts zone it's more intense, more action, more fun, which is the reason why we play this right?
Humans don't camp much in the matches I play.

+ Try to look at it from a new player perspective, and not a veteran like yourself, it's very hard to change something you are used to.
I know the new players perspective, but I think it's the wrong approach how you suggest it. We need to have different servers for different levels of skill to turn Savage into a fun experience for newbies. Gameplay changes always concern both, vets and newbies and usually lead to imbalances.
I'm also aware that we can't provide newbie servers at the moment, but this will change when XR is ready.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 06:50:04 pm by H3027 » Logged



First Witch: When shall we three meet again / In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
Second Witch: When the hurlyburly's done, / When the battle's lost and won.
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2010, 06:56:59 pm »

Savage really need to be more intense, as the game is right now it's boring campfest..


All these suggestions are terrible. Savage is as intense as you want to play it.

All these suggestions are terrible. Savage is as intense as you want to play it.

This is the best sentence I heard today. Thank you =)

All these suggestions are terrible. Savage is as intense as you want to play it.

What he said.

No, AloN is right and you're all being retards.
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2010, 07:04:13 pm »

Few games now that I played, most of the action starts when humans get savage\flux\repeater and when beasts get stalker\temp\blaze\melee stuff.
Correct, that's has to do with server size and server settings.

And the modern savage trend of P-mining, lower tier combat was much more prolific before it became popular.

Any who, I think achievements in savage would be neat, especially for new players, but I not sure such a system could be implemented into savage, at least not without a lot of work.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 07:07:06 pm by Helios » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2010, 07:04:52 pm »

biggie, the suggestions given are just not good. So enliven was right here.
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