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Savage: XR is a new patch for Savage, created by the Newerth.com staff. The XR1.1 Client is out now! Download it now!
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1  Savage XR / General Savage XR Discussion / Re: Getting H vs H back. on: January 09, 2013, 05:33:24 pm
I can be the mascot Smiley I'd love to see the community go, so aside from commanding I am up to take on some tasks.
2  Archive / Server Forum / Re: Server's insta-killing script on: April 22, 2012, 12:32:36 pm
This would completely exile the sieges from near spawnpoints and however I would  agree with the idea (if not for anything else but for behes) but I doubt the community would take that.

However with Groentjuh we came to an understanding that non-behe siege units will not be slain if they don't attack at all after some time, and farming npcs will keep the timer still, but as soon as one stops farming them the timer continues and the same conditions will apply to them.

I have already coded this, but we will test it when we both have time, and after we think it will suffice in real situations the changes will be applied to the running script.
3  Archive / Server Forum / Re: Server's insta-killing script on: April 21, 2012, 08:15:38 am
I can hardly believe that you lost your developer status for not doing what Mohican says. Every time so far when I had different views than him, we always managed to come to an understanding, and I became a developer 4 years ago, so that is kind of a long time I think.
Anyway, it is only up to me to decide if my work and time were wasted or not, and I don't think so. If you accepted the task, now you would be the one to decide about these things and savage would more likely be in your favourable way.

You just simply can not slay a unit before it finishes it's attack. It is simply not available in python and I think it is a pure waste of time to implement such feature, as it can be hardly used for anything and still there is no point in having an "infinite" meat shield on the beast side that - I think - causes major balance problems. The way behes can shield beast buildings is far too overpowered. This will not stop it, and in fact I doubt that a behe could shield a building from ballis for 35s, even with shamans.

Not counting the time a siege spent by just being idle while no enemy units are in range would mean a balli can simply sit at the SH for 1min, then kill an incoming wave of beasts as the counter would only start then from them coming close enough and then again just wait there, is not this camping? The question of farmin NPCs has come up from more of you now, I will think about it, if there is a decent way to allow it.

About the last stand situation (destroyed tech), I was thinking about the same, but I can not begin with it until XR1.0 is released.

As Groentjuh said there are 2 ways to cover the siege vs siege situations. On as he said is to count the clients damage done to other siege units, this would be very exact, but as well as the last stand, I can not begin with it until XR1.0. The other that allow siege camping at spawnpoints where a specified number of enemy sieges are in a bigger area, could be implemented without editing the servers source code and I also think this is a better way to decide it, however I will not decide this.

The gate situation is being worked on, I am done with the first version to cover it, we will test it with Groentjuh and when we both agree it is complete, it will probably be applied to the running version.

It was indeed a nice list.
4  Archive / Server Forum / Re: Server's insta-killing script on: April 20, 2012, 09:12:58 pm
The problem of afks is to be solved by another trigger, which is already finished, yet not activated until the testing period of this one is not over.

You could have known how it works (or at least the building thing) if you had tested it before you posted. It gives you 3 warnings before it slays, and it says you have x seconds to move away, change unit or attack buildings (not word by word, but closely).

Also Hakugei, Groentjuh and I have stated that many times, the present state of the python API does not give the widest range of possiblities and that such situations like the behe wave will be included after the release of XR1.0.

So far in this topic, the only real response to the script was the damage over time instead of insta slay, I think the rest in this topic, is repeating the same things over and over again, which resulst in Groentjuh and I quoting ourselves in every post.
5  Archive / Server Forum / Re: Server's insta-killing script on: April 20, 2012, 05:49:17 pm
IgorS, if you had read the topic, you would have seen that I have stated my point about some of the situations you listed. I will not quote myself again as I already did like 2 times now, so please, read after those.

The ones left:
Being afk with a siege unit near a spawnpoint: Does not matter what happens, you should not be afk on the map, so I think it is right, to slay then.

Waiting for allied gate to build up: I have just covered that, we will test it with Groentjuh and if nothing is wrong, it should be applied very soon.

Balli/sum rush from a sneak garr: You only have to hit the garr once to reset your timer, I think you can do that in 35s. But same thing applies as for the behe train and last stand. No XR1.0, no improvement.

Farming npcs: If you have enough gold for a balli, you can buy a lego and kill mudents without getting hit or having to refill ammo. Same applies for summ/behe and a pred and maybe a carni, or kind of anything with a carni.
6  Archive / Server Forum / Re: Server's insta-killing script on: April 20, 2012, 11:34:54 am
I would not mind if the current "tactics" changed, but my point is, and I think Groentjuh also made that clear, rules are made to be enforced, fairly, including everyone. There is a rule against camping, this script enforces it to every player, as refs don't always do. In some cases, yes a referee would do better, but I think after those 2 cases that both Groentjuh and I agreed on to be fixed (last stand, behe train) the number of the remaining situations when the script would act bad is waaaay smaller than the current number of situations when referees act bad (which includes not acting when needed).

So as I said there is nothing that could fit the taste of this community, there is always someone who does not like it. It is a step for a better gameplay, not the final step to achieve it. So don't expect it to simply solve every problem you see.

On the other hand Oldman, you can still camp with any kind of siege unit, you can simply not do it near the spawnpoints.

About the balance of the game, beasts win nearly all of the matches, humans rarely do, and if they can get a draw it just counts as a win for them I think. So if this slaying causes the behe to be nerfed a bit, I think it helps more than it ruins, BUT again, the point is the enforcement of the rules.
7  Archive / Server Forum / Re: Server's insta-killing script on: April 19, 2012, 07:59:37 pm
You can have as many behes as you like to shield.
Rules indeed say that camping (by one specification, and I checked ONLY Groentjuh's rules) is staying close to a camppoint and waiting for someone to kill. So basically you are telling me that behe won't attack if someone comes close.
Anyways, I won't change my opinion about that, if you want to shield something you can shield it from say 30 range away too, which is in fact more effective since the huge body as you mentioned will then cover a bigger area.

Summs have infinite mana and are smaller (harder to hit) than ballis. I would mention that if you have already brought up balli and cata, how much hp does a behe have? You don't really see a lot of ballis sneaking around the map hunting players but I always see some summs hunting players.

On the other hand, all of these are not questions for me, and will never be. As I already said, I won't force anybody to use this script, neither do I have the right or power to. I will only make it so it fits MY view of the game, and when it is actually complete, and if Groentjuh decides to use, I will of course listen to his opinion, as I have been doing so far and we will come to an understanding as we have always did so far.

So, my answer in short again for all of these: If you find a bug, a real bug, that means it slays in some conditions like client was way out of the range, was not siege, did hit buildings only then complain. If I will edit it in the future, other than covering the "last stand" case and the gate thing, I will only make it more strict, there is no way at all that I will ever edit it to allow any siege unit to actually just hang out near allied spawnpoints.

I know the way I write about this is kind of arrogant, but I will not argue about how the game should be played and about the purpose of the units. I only make this to fix the problems that I think persist.

As I have already said, if you own a server and do not like it, do not use it. If not, let the server's owner decide.
8  Archive / Server Forum / Re: Server's insta-killing script on: April 19, 2012, 06:18:17 pm
Yes, I want to accomplish that Taggi.

And a big no, behe, summ, balli, and cata.. these are all siege units, if you want to hunt players with them feel free to, but not while camping near a spawnpoint, what is prohibited by the rules of some servers.

I think all of the servers seem to have  failed in getting those better refs you mentioned. Yes it would indeed be the easier way. Yet it did not lead to success in the past years, so I think it is time to change the way we handle that.

Also, the existence of these scripts is not a question, it is up to the server admins if they want to use it or not. It is true that I asked Groentjuh to put it on for testing purposes, but in the end, if he chooses to disable it, I won't argue. Whatever the owner of a server, the people who pay for it decides should be like that. I don't pay for their servers, neither you I think.

Getting continuous warnings in a foreign language in all red, all the time while doing the same thing - a monkey should understand that something is wrong with doing that, and even if you did not have time to go through the forums.

And speculating about the outcomes of that story can also go like "wait, my hp is going down, maybe the unit is like that, nevermind I will just keep respawning.."
"I have died by instant with a lot of red messages, I must have done something wrong!"

There are millions of versions that could happen, it is not possible to do anything that will fit the taste of this whole community. I respect the newbies and I understand what did you want to say, but I think for a 10 year old Russian kid, who does not understand 3 words in English, there is no future in this game for more than - say - 10 days. Also I barely met such people in the past 8 years of playing savage.

9  Archive / Server Forum / Re: Server's insta-killing script on: April 19, 2012, 04:37:53 pm
There is no point in letting a player sit in a siege for a time and then slay him when he actually tries to act. It would also allow shielding with behe and as I said, I consider that camping since the behe would then just stand still there and it is also unfair judging that summs can kill a shield with 3 shots, that costs both gold and rs for the human team and it should be well placed, it consumes space all the time, it takes time to replace it. A behe can last for like 4-5 balli shots, excuse me for not being correct, but neither it costs rs and can be instantly replaced by another player and it is also capable to move. So by any means, shielding with a behe, will not be allowed like that. If you want to shield, do it from outside of the "camping area" or bear the consequences.

Writing the time would not be correct since the time moving in and out from or to a spawnpoint is also included in it, so if a player has never camped a second he would still get some time every match.
10  Archive / Server Forum / Re: Server's insta-killing script on: April 19, 2012, 04:23:52 pm
So as I created the trigger I will tell my opinion about these:
1, Shielding any building with a behe, in my opinion counts as camping. Humans have no unit that could act as such mobile shield which can respawn anytime, therefore it would be not fair to allow it. Beasts have shamans with shield, that i know is not so effective, but it is made to do that, not behes.

2, The case of defending versus a behewave from a gate: I will try to cover it, as soon as the server will allow it to do so, which will not, until XR1.0 is released.

3, The "last stand" situation, allowing camping when no other suitable tech is available: see point 2.

4, These let's call it "invisible camping points" as it has started, will remain invisible, as showing them would only help players to outplay the script. You get warned soon enough to have time to move out or do something else and you also get warned more times.

5, Slow kills instead of insta kills: You get warned not only once, after the slay you can read why did it happen if you have not yet, so if you only speak English and you can read, it should not matter if you are a newbie or not, you must get the point of it.

6, Starting the timer from first shot: It would allow players to wait with the siege near a spawnpoint, then kill an incoming wave, change unit for a few seconds, go back, and they can remain there again waiting for an incoming wave, and this is camping, anyhow we think of it, so in short: no.

7, Time: players have 15s to react at the current settings, this is the time when they get the first warning. You can actually go forth and back in the full range from the spawnpoint to the end of the radius considered the camping area, with any unit. Also this can be configured with simple server variables, so it is not up to me, but I think it is perfect as it is.

So all-in-one: there are only 2 cases (point 1,2) which should be covered, and I am planning to do both as soon as the opportunity is given, the rest of it would just make camping harder, and they would barely do anything against it, so those will not be included in the current forms of the ideas.
11  Archive / Archived (-03.11.14) / Re: UPDATED 4/29/2011: Newerth EvO Server Rules on: April 29, 2011, 05:39:36 pm
behespawn, spamvotes?
Also I think if conceding is limited, draw should be allowed to call anytime during the game.
12  Newerth Hosted Competitions / Season Four (locked) / Re: DA vs TH' on: December 19, 2010, 01:57:36 pm
Sorry, I forgot to tell you, and I have just realized, the Matches II is the pug server, so instead of it, the Matches I  is set up for you.
13  Savage XR / Support Forum / Re: REPORT: Linux Savage XR Bugs on: December 14, 2010, 08:14:31 pm
Same bug as above on Debian Lenny.
14  Archive / Server Forum / Re: ADMINS PLEASE READ: Wololo Man Fix in a few days. on: May 17, 2009, 10:35:03 am
somehow it's always 0 for it, or at least what i saw
15  Archive / Server Forum / Re: ADMINS PLEASE READ: Wololo Man Fix in a few days. on: May 17, 2009, 08:31:40 am
some more IP's:
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