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Off Topic => Other Games => Topic started by: born_to_be_noobish on June 16, 2006, 04:47:50 pm

Title: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on June 16, 2006, 04:47:50 pm
curiousity killed the cat.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on June 19, 2006, 07:04:32 pm
So what do we learn from this?
1) making polls is not my best skill. (but it was my first poll ever, so i have an excuse)
2) The decent graphics are the most important. Logic prevails.

since the decent timetable thingie at the end seems to be the number 2, how come i c so many rts totally fail on this part?

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Drake3 on July 14, 2006, 10:38:17 am
Good question, also a replay feature tends to be nice to have as well.

Have you ever played Rise of Nations? Since it is in the Age of Empires vein, it has both of those. (Also, it is my favorite... TA second.)

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on July 14, 2006, 11:51:04 am
Rise of nations is pretty good, except for some smaller details.
Like the damn cant destroy enemy town centers thingie. U have to occupy them. And some tech that was way overpowered in my opinion. Like the invincible bombers. I prefer to have a chance, even a nomad vs a behe has more chance then anything vs those bombers. The rise of legends might have fixed that, not sure. I played the demo a bit and destroying enemy towns was easier there.
it was pretty nice, the Rise of nations, but not good enough to buy.

I am waiting for SupCom, the spiritual successor of TA, which will hopefully be good.
TA pwns. I prefer TA over any other rts. Well, untill my copies of TA all started to freak. I lost them all now, i think. Hard disk failures, computer errrors, data loss.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Sheeproth on July 17, 2006, 05:08:07 pm
i did actually want to tick all the boxes  :lol:

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Drake3 on August 04, 2006, 07:42:47 pm
I wasn't even aware of Supreme Commander!  :-o

Hopefully it will be better than Total Annihilation. If they can improve the clutter of ground combat and the AI of units and the AI players, I will be happy. I don't even need better graphics. Though I watched the E3 trailer and saw that, of course, the graphics look great.

I just hope that it doesn't take too much processing power to play it. With the massive unit count and the graphics, I am a little worried it may be a while before I can handle it. Hopefully I can reduce the graphics a lot for performance.  :mrgreen:

Oh yeah, for those of you who haven't seen the trailer, here is a link:

Note that most of this is in-game footage, though I would imagine that the user interface has been hidden for better viewing. (I would like to see it though...  :cry:)

That is something that has always bothered me about game previews. I want to see real game footage as I would see it if I were playing! Is that too much to ask? Don't get me wrong, this one doesn't really bother me very much, since it is real gameplay, but the ones I see on television are usually just cinematic cutscenes and nothing else. How can you possibly learn about what a game is like based purely on cutscenes? Sorry, it just gets to me sometimes...

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Shamoke on August 05, 2006, 12:31:13 am
Drake, The Answer is: Marketing. In many cases, even screenshots showed as 'in Game Footage' are modified with Photoshop&Such for The Cuttiest Effect. But I think that you already thought about that and yeah, that's a bit sad... Money > Creation.

About Supreme Commander, I'm afraid it will require a Monster Computer.. 10000 units on screen isn't something easy to manage  :lol:

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on August 05, 2006, 11:27:07 am
Funny thing is, that even TA is too much for my pc atm.
When there are alot of units i mean.
once i have about 2500 units and the cpu has like 8000 units, it's kinda hard for my pc to handle.
a few nukes usually solves that.

TA i only played vs the cpu. I just make lots of factories, set the units on a waypoint towards enemy base, mainly to keep the fight out of my base. I let my airplanes gather somewhere and every now and then i launch an airstrike followed by nukes. Eventually, that's enough.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Drake3 on August 05, 2006, 07:48:05 pm
Do you have a different AI that you use?

I ask because I don't like to use nukes on the default AI since they don't know how to use or defend against them. If you do use a different one, which one? I cannot seem to find a good AI. The ones that I have tried which use nukes don't do a good job building units/defenses, so I can usually overwhelm them normally.

If you don't, then poor AI... lol.  :-D

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on August 05, 2006, 11:23:59 pm
U can make your own ai. (basicly a list of units and the importance of them)
Did that once, was pretty fun. I disable anything except peewees and the core counterpart of peewee. (and resources and defense were still enabled too)
basicly, result was massive amounts of peewees stuck in a base with way too much defense and way too much mines and solar plants.

for ai with nukes, i simply installed switecks ai use nuke nuclear plant. Something like that. That worked. CPU rarely used nukes against me (i kinda allways had my antinuke up in time) but he does manage to get some antinukes up in time, so i waste like 200 planes on a rush against the antinuke. But indeed, nukes against the cpu is usually not that fun. Overkill. Useless, defense is strong enough to hold any cpu back if u can get it up. Big bertha pwns :).

One of the main things i like about TA is the unit expandability. Who cares about his units getting killed? a new wave is ready even before the first one reaches his target. As long as they die away from your base, it's ok. Downside is, u cant put unit production on continuous. So u have to click it lotsa of times. I bet that doesnt work against a human though. AI in TA is pretty stupid, but still great for it's time. I mean, AOE standard AI is not that smart either.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Drake3 on August 06, 2006, 10:30:33 am
I will have to check that out, perhaps I can modify switecks AI or something.

A peewee/ak war sounds rediculous. I would probably only allow light laser towers for defenses on that setting... hehe. Silly ants!

Big berthas are awesome, but I do have trouble when the enemy builds intimidators, since they are slightly longer range. Then I have to precision brawler strike or abduct a core builder and build intimidators myself.  :-)

I appreciate the long range warfare and the physics. Artillery should have a chance of hitting planes. Planes should probably be able to fly higher though...

As for having to click a lot, you probably know you can hold shift to build 5 per click right? Did you know you could hold shift and ctrl to build 100 per click? It makes things much easier. You still have to click a lot if you have many factories...  :evil:

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on August 06, 2006, 07:44:56 pm
It was fun :)
loooooooootsa peewees

i use the TAUCP thingie, which has fastfiring long range plasma cannons. 5 of those wipe anything away, if u can supply the power.
WIth normal TA, the normal long range plasma cannons are good too, since i only play against the cpu, they never managed to get a counter long range cannon up, so didnt even know about the range difference, pc is too stupid to build it just outside my max range.

knew the 5 per click, but not the 100 per click. damn.
And with TA, i allways have lotsa factories. Just for distraction. As i said, the mass of units keeps the cpu nicely occupied and keeps the fight out of my base. I am not that good at the game. In fact i have never won any pvp rts match online in any game. For TA, i tried to play it online several times, got it working once. lasted 5 min then the opponent left and that's my TA online experience.

Right now, my TA is messed up, doesnt do anything anymore. I cant even get a map started anymore i think.

For alternative tactic, have u ever tried to attack with builders? u can reclaim enemy stuff too :). u get free res and the enemy looses stuff and it's fun to watch. Advanced builder planes work best if i remember well.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Drake3 on August 07, 2006, 04:55:34 am
I haven't actually tried to play it online... only versus a few friends lan. Otherwise, we almost always play co-op versus AI.

Your TA is having problems? That sucks. Do you have the original discs anymore? If not, I could probably put them on a .torrent just for you.  :mrgreen:

I have tried attacking with builders. It is quite funny to see their buildings get deconstructed right in front of them. It isn't a great tactic, however, since the reclaiming is short range and slow. Also, construction units are weak. It certainly is fun though.  :-D

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on August 07, 2006, 06:45:00 pm
Well, honestly, i never had the chance to buy TA. Never found TA in a shop. Just as DKII. I want to buy those 2 games, but i cant find em. (DKII i need 2 copies of, cause i borrowed it once and my dad got the cd exploded. Which is bad, cause he also has TA and i was going to borrow/buy TA from him, but since DKII exploded, that's not an option till i at least get him a new (original) copy of DKII.)
I missed the train, by the time i discovered TA, cavedog was already dead. After TA:Kingdoms and such. I did manage to get everything. TA, TA:CC, TA: battle tactics orso. but i got data corruption orso, so it's all not working anymore.

.torrent would be nice, but i got very little experience with it. PM me orso :).

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Drake3 on August 08, 2006, 12:40:19 am
I sent you a pm. If you don't get it, I can send it again.

I can send you DKII if you wish and you have space. My parents used to buy me many games. :-)  Neither are quite the same as the original, however. If you have a cd burner, it is close.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on August 08, 2006, 02:56:55 pm
DKII has to be original, cause it was the original cd that blew itself up. I need to find a closed box in perfect condition. Or something as close as possible to that.

DKII i have, but doesnt run well on xp.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Drake3 on August 08, 2006, 08:34:31 pm
Finding one in the classic box will be hard. I used froogle and only found ones that have been reproduced recently. So their box is slightly different. It says "Sold Out Software" on it. Still new though...

Here is an example:

If you go to froogle and search for dungeon keeper 2 you will find many others similar to it. To find an actual original in near perfect condition, you may need to search on eBay or something. Good luck if that is the case.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on August 09, 2006, 08:27:00 pm
I dont thrust ebay.
And yes, finding a perfect condition box is hard. i know.
Also, i dont thrust paying online stuff, so cant buy online and no shop nearby has it.

My only hope for DKII is that they make a DKIII and then sell a full pack orso (DK I, II, III) orso in the shop. Like u can buy a box with the entire C&C series. It's like waiting for christmas to fall on easter.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Drake3 on August 09, 2006, 10:06:56 pm
Hehe... I see. Good luck then. For what it's worth, I hope they make Dungeon Keeper III also.  :-D

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on August 14, 2006, 08:00:02 pm
As for having to click a lot, you probably know you can hold shift to build 5 per click right? Did you know you could hold shift and ctrl to build 100 per click? It makes things much easier. You still have to click a lot if you have many factories...  :evil:

that doesnt work, shift+ctrl for 100. Also, i cant raise the number of ai players. something that allso requires ctrl + shift. Problably my pc.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Drake3 on August 15, 2006, 12:25:46 am
The shift+ctrl for 100 could be due to the TA Demo Recorder I applied to my version. I just learned about it recently, probably because it was just added recently... hehe. The recorder includes many cool features and I wouldn't be surprised if that was one of them. I got it so that my brother and I could face more than one AI player each in multiplayer. It also is supposed to allow you to record and replay battles, but I haven't tried that function yet. If you want to check it out, here are some links:

Download for latest TA Recorder 0.99b3 build 543r2:

Download for inital TA Recorder 0.99b2: (required for latest Recorder)

Some info on the latest TA Recorder and how to install:

Finally, a comprehensive F.A.Q. on 3rd party mods and utilities for TA:

Oh, to raise the number of AI players in skirmish was a little strange. You have to press "*" and then input the roman numerals of the number of players you wish from 2 to 10. (i.e. For ten players type *X at the skirmish setup screen)

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on August 15, 2006, 09:14:05 am
Interesting site.

installing demo thingie now.
the raise number of AI, i have encountered about 3 different ways to do it, (none works) but this site is the first site taht gives some feedback on what i might be doing wrong.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Drake3 on August 15, 2006, 06:23:05 pm
Glad I could help, to a certain extent anyways.  :-)

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Shamoke on August 22, 2006, 01:37:33 pm
Someone has tried the Paraworld Demo ?

I dl'ed it and made a few skirmish games against the AI... Which is truely stupid, even at the most difficult level.
In general, the game has a good looking, but the game mechanics are way too basics. Very classic&similar to The AOE series; nothing new, all old under a new shape.

I'm a bit disappointed... Could have done a lot better with dinosaurs. Rawr.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on August 22, 2006, 08:11:06 pm
well, it's not released yet according to the first site i found. So maybe they ll improve it a bit, but problably not.
Havent tried it yet, but the idea sounded good.

And well, AOE was pretty good. They could have done worse than that.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Shamoke on August 24, 2006, 05:56:54 am
Born To Be Noobish, maybe should you try the game first, if you wanna reply something relatively interesting.
Other than that, where did I say that AOE wasn't good ?

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on August 24, 2006, 07:05:59 pm
good point.
I would try it if i could.
ANd u're right, u didnt say AOE was bad. That part came from being frustated by pointless argueing in other topics.

i ll try to shut up more.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: MrEvilDr on August 25, 2006, 05:26:12 pm
Please do.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on August 30, 2006, 08:06:18 am
On paraworld, it's a good demo. 2 races to choose from and such.
i like the game for it's easy unit overview and the downgrades/upgrades u can do with certain buildings/units. But it also requires alot of thinking and micromanagement, which is not my thingie.  And the CPU owns me if i set it at medium. Skull collecting is nice.
Unit limits are a bit on the low side, so u have to think about which unit to raise to lvl 4 and such. I bet tht allows for several interesting approaches and tactics.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Shamoke on August 30, 2006, 05:16:25 pm
Yeah, the only good thing is the army controller, even tho you cannot have a huge army. Wouldn't it be cool to have 100 dinosaurs under your orders ? And anyway, the micro management is very basic compared to Warcraft III for example; most units are very basics, except the 'healer' who as some spells (which look ugly).

That's my opinion, it's not a bad game from what I've tested... But nothing as amazing as Warcraft II/III or TA were at their times.

In fact, I've played all the recent RTS such as AOEIII, Rise Of Legends, Empire Earth II, Blitzkrieg II, Strongholds Legends... None of them demonstrated a real potential. I'm still waiting for Supreme Commander or Warhammer Mark Of Chaos which, I hope, will give new sensations for the gamers :p.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on August 30, 2006, 11:02:57 pm
Combat micromanagement is low indeed, but resource management is worse then warcraft III, no?
warcraft III was mainly babysitting hero's and checking base in your spare time and go through all your units to activate or not activate abilities. Stuff like that should be go way more automaticly. The healers (clerics)in spellforce heal and fight without u needing to do anything. They stop smashing stuff for a sec, cast spell, fight further. was good for lazy ppl like me.

still havent figured out or u loose the res they carry if u let em do something else or not, do they? I think in AOE u loose the res, in other games they sometimes just drop it on the ground where it can be picked up later and in paraworld i dunno.
Am i wrong or has the demo 2 full races? if yes, not bad for a demo which has 3 races in total. Good demo. No time limit, no 'buy the full now!' crap. Really like the demo content. Games with demo's with timelimits and such i really dislike.

Shamoke, i suppose u play mp every now and then (in general, not just paraworld)? I allways play singleplayer vs cpu. Makes a huge difference in tactics and such ofcourse. And in game experience.

I am waiting for Supcom and Mark of chaos too. Maybe a mix between TA and paraworld could pwn. armies of dinosaurs, with tiny dinosaurs and huge ones. The huges ones can step on the smaller ones like in Supcom. Could pwn.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Shamoke on August 31, 2006, 12:21:44 am
About the Paraworld Demo, yeah, giving out 2 races + full tech is nice from the dev. In fact, it's a marketing strategy: there is already a tournament for the demo with a prize of 5000$, if you are interested..  :wink:

Maybe most people find Paraworld entertaining (which it is), but, as I said again, I was expecting a bit more. The game has a great background and storyline, they could have done a lot more about the units and their characteristics. I don't know, for example, the heroes. You got 2 scientists armed with a bow and 2 swords, and have 3000 hp (the equivalent of an Allosaurus). They look weak, they have 1 unique ability... Dunno. it's the same for the rest. A lot of dinosaurs which basically are the same: some are just stronger than the other.They are mostly well designed, but their animation is poor, on the contrary. Watching a brontosaurus battling is boring. Even the Mighty T-Rex, which look awesome, doesn't inspire fear in battle when you are watching him.

And you're right, I was expecting something epic, a mix between TA&Paraworld. Now, they chose to go the Warcraft Way, with a lot less units and more micro managements, and that's why I'm a disappointed: they do not give out the micro management required to give an interesting experience. You have like 52 units max (workers which take like half of the counts), and basically, you grab all your fighters and attack; using some abilities there and there.. But nothing transcending.

I would give that game a 6/10; too much effort on the esthetics, while they forgot the gameplay for a casual/hardcore gamer.
I don't think it will stay long on the competitive scene.

And yeah, I like skirmishing against the AI. To be honest, I rarely do the campaigns in any RTS, which are boring, in most cases. I know that a lot of people are alike me, you, many others.. And that's why I never understood dev who don't include a skirmish mode: I take for example Blitzkrieg II (which is a good WWII RTS), which hasn't skirmish.. I didn't play it long.

I don't really play RTS online except on lan from times to times. I don't know, except Savage, I've rarely found a good community. It's not fun playing against someone you know you'll never meet again. And plus, too many L33T Bois Out there. Nah, at least the AI shuts up.

If you want, we can play try the Paraworld Demo Together.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on August 31, 2006, 07:59:11 pm
RTS multiplayer has to be very fast. when i tried it, some years ago, some ppl disconnected if the fight wasnt decided in 10 min. Bloody annoying. I prefer to build a massive army, a huge base and stuff like that. i like to entertain myself with torturing stuff in DKII. I prefer to play rts on a more slow paced tempo. It's more fun.

On paraworld i agree with u completely. It's unit limit is even lower then the one of warcraft, i think. (for your army, i think warcraft alows slightly larger armies) which basicly means u can defend one base at most. I beat the cpu simply cause he expands, i attack a thingie to the left (with something cheap and fast) and crush his base when his armies are away, preferably with the moveable base dinosaur thingie, that can make units spawn and comes with a defense tower on it. I love that one. Havent tested yet what the select unit limit is. That's something that annoys me in alot of games. U make an army and when u attack, u cant even select em all. so u have to mess around with groups and such, which is not the way i like to play. I dont expect my armies to return to base, so the messing aroudn with numbers is basicly just a waste of time. In C&C: generals, with the chinese, i just build a huge number of the lowest infantry, for fun. If they survive and i start having too much units to decently control em, i nuke em. Against cpu that's doable, if u defend your base with other stuff ofc.

Most ppl i know play mainly skirmishes yes. Note to self, if i ever succeed at making an rts, pay attention to the skirmishes.
Not all games have an AI that shuts up. Annoying. Certainly if u cant switch it off. I also highly dislike it my units say something everytime they move. The game usually have 2-3 thingies at most that each unit can say and it really annoys me after some time to hear the same things over and over. If they say it every now and then, then it's ok. Would be better if they had a battlecry when they charge enemies or a cheer when they win. Would make a way better atmosphere then the crap they say everytime i move em. Certainly in warcraft, it has a few hero's who say stuff like 'u dare command me?'. I dont want my units to question my commands. It ruins the atmosphere.

edit: on trying paraworld mp, it's a no, i prefer to not do it. No time mainly. And it problably wont work.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Shamoke on August 31, 2006, 08:38:38 pm
Hehe right. Was nice to share some point of views.  :-)

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Drake3 on September 03, 2006, 11:01:25 am
I also highly dislike it my units say something everytime they move.

+sing  :-D

(for those who don't know, this is a Total Annihilation reference...)

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: Sheeproth on September 03, 2006, 05:56:41 pm
yeah i played it a few times

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: born_to_be_noobish on September 03, 2006, 09:24:26 pm
Dawn of war: Dark crusade demo, is rather disappointing compared to the paraworld demo.
It's basicly just a preview of the Tau. I'd hoped for a bit more tech/units and a skirmish map with a bit more options orso. It's a buy the full version now demo. I dont like having to wait half a minute every time i close down.

The game itself looks pretty promising. Tau are interesting. But the demo doesnt reveal much. Well, they cant mess up with a game like Dawn of War, can they? I bet the dark crusade will be worth his money.

Title: Re: RTS games
Post by: fire dr@gon on February 19, 2007, 08:00:13 pm
:-( :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)