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Savage XR => General Savage XR Discussion => Topic started by: Senthryl on July 13, 2008, 05:44:50 am



Title: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: Senthryl on July 13, 2008, 05:44:50 am
Hey guys,

I know that there's a few people around who never visit the main page because their bookmarks take them directly to the forum, so I thought that I'd let you know about the vote going on at the main site right now.

The question may seem deceivingly simple to some, but there's lots of arguments for both sides.  The question:
 
 

Assuming that the two choices conflict, which is more important to the future of Savage?

1. Making the game better for veterans is more important.
2. Making the game better for beginners is more important.

 

You can check out the current results (http://www.newerth.com/?id=poll) or go directly to the main page (http://www.newerth.com/) to vote.

I'd love to hear some more detailed opinions on this matter since the poll system does not provide a feedback facility, and the shoutbox doesn't last forever.


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: Enliven on July 13, 2008, 05:46:44 am
I don't understand why these two things should exclude each other.


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: Java on July 13, 2008, 08:24:12 am
Because I believe they're assuming the only way to make it easier for beginners is to change it in a way that harms veteran's experiences with the old game mechanics.
If it requires changing mechanics (such as melee) in a way that takes away from the advantage of spending an extended period of time learning the game, I completely disagree on implementing any such thing. (Such as simplifying melee). Being good is why this game is fun, and any player that is dedicated to getting better can achieve such a status.
This game thrives on veterans, remove them, and this game will very quickly die.


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: jaguar on July 13, 2008, 08:35:36 am
Only changes that will happen to melee is that to make it more accurate on hit detection. So in other words melee will not be changed!


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: Aneurysm on July 13, 2008, 08:39:35 am
I think they should make changes that r liek good n stuff, and not make changes taht r bad n shit, cause then it will make the game pwn more. I r clever no?


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: Takz on July 13, 2008, 09:45:41 am
define veterans.


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: -Mein- on July 13, 2008, 10:22:58 am
2. Making the game better for beginners is more important.

got my vote!

Frist of all i can farm more then^^ hehe and if 100 new players start maybe 20 get into clans and become better so the clans will get more members and more activ.
If you only got the same players all you can do is shuffle them around in the clans



Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: UnSaFe on July 13, 2008, 11:42:09 am
Why don't you try to make both sides happy?


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: JackBauer on July 13, 2008, 11:52:02 am
FOR BEGINNERS - Definately

I know alot of people who think that savage is NICE and has a great concept but they simply are annoyed of beeing farmed all day and leave the game after 1 week.

the problem is more that we call everyone who`s new to the game and accidently presses the COMM BUTTON a "fucking idiotic, assfucking, retarded NEWBFACE" :D

so its more a community problem. It was easier to enter the game in 2004 - today - you have like no chance as nub :D

form those WE TRAIN NEWB CLANS - and train the newbs ;)


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: Mats on July 13, 2008, 02:36:11 pm
This question is pretty stupid. It's way to general. It all depends on what changes you had in mind. I doubt there is many changes which are exclusive like this anyway. Give some examples please.


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: SpearWolf on July 13, 2008, 03:22:54 pm
Elaborate what you mean by making the game "better" for beginners?

IF you mean make it easier for them to get used to the game, then that has my vote, but i just want clarification here.


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: WarDragonZ on July 13, 2008, 03:29:35 pm
Hey look at savage 2, I made a gigantic fucking post with like 600 replies back when they said there wouldn't be any leap or accurate/powerful weapons. They also said it'd be easier for noobs to kill good players (low skill ceiling). I warned them, they didn't listen, I post on how they failed once they advertise on steam (LOLOLOL) and i get a 1 year ban. Maliken is my bitch.

There's a REASON that game sucks. Learning curves = a reason to play games. Savage has about the steepest learning curve ive ever seen in a game, which is just awesome imo.

THE ONLY REASON savage one failed, is because stupid worthless shitty S2games decided to take like SIX months to fix SIMPLE ass bugs, then like a year and a half to release 2.0e (should of been 1.0). I knew some guys that were going to make competition mods for savage, get tournaments for savage, mainstream the shit out of it, but the DEVS just didn't give a shit because they didn't instantly sell 5 million copies.

Had s2games given a shit about s1 it'd be a very popular game today.

Had they fixed:
Catapults 1 shotting unlimited targets per shot
Rabid 1 shotting nomads and 2 shotting everything else
Legos block not working long enough to be useful
Flux doing like 1 damage per shot and having 8 ammo (sarcasm)
Immobs holding the target in place for like 7 seconds totally unable to act

within ONE FUCKING WEEK of the game being released, it'd have about 5x the players right now. (and probably 20x the players a month after release)

But again, they failed, they failed with savage 2 even more.

So anything you want to do to savage 1 at this point really won't matter that much, maybe just keep the game from totally dying i guess.

Wow, total rant there, but it happens, just gotta do this:

/rant


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: Bunny on July 13, 2008, 03:54:28 pm
For both. U cant separate this things.
Gimme example of making games for beginners and for veterans.


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: JackBauer on July 13, 2008, 04:00:14 pm
For beginners: donīt use new players as npcīs - remember that you all started as newbs - donīt kick every newb that accidently pressed comm button and ruined a match.
For Pros: insert bots :D or mage items more powerful that will never ever be used by newbs :D


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: jaguar on July 13, 2008, 04:28:03 pm
To make the game better for beginners would mean balance and hopefully other things to help. I would like to make a small tutorial to help with newcomers.

To make the game better for vets would be to leave it in its current state however make it look pretty and fix bugs plus add small featues.


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: Enliven on July 13, 2008, 07:36:52 pm
Dude, I can call myself a "vet", but I would really appreciate the balance changes. Morever, I don't care about graphics. Stop the delusions please.

EDIT: I'm all in for centralised tutorials, most of fighter, commander, modding and mapping tutorials you can find today are either updated, contain errors or are useless.


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: Voldo on July 13, 2008, 08:55:36 pm
I don't see why a compromise considering both couldn't be obtained. But if it worked in absolute, I'd probably choose beginners. Bearing in mind most (NB: NOT ALL) of the guys that vote "crap" maps on servers, exploit, siegecamp and do things that are generally fround upon, are beginners.


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: Swilt on July 13, 2008, 09:05:16 pm
I think you need to frame the end result though, voting without realism is futile.

Making this better for noobs assumes that we get more noobs to come in. Saying we get 20 more clans because its easier for noobs assumes that anyone cares about a 5 year old game and out of 20 that come to stay we would have to attract 100 plus. It is NEVER going to happen period....EVER.

So the point of this is really moot, because if you are going to create a vote that says assuming we can somehow miraculously attract new players, then make the game more noob friendly so some sort of ratio of newcomers to people that stay is increased (of course we have neither of those facts so its again moot).

Thats the point I have already made in many of Pingus threads and on top of that, Pingu even admitted that there is no way to attract players and that wasn't the reason for any so called "balance changes". Thus get rid of the vets get rid of the game end of story, make your choice from those facts.

If you want to make a noob server like Uttar did originally when SEP spread like a plague, then I suggest you look at doing that, the same way I suggested Pingu's changes are server specific to test it. If you make any changes as part of the source code you will find a very unwilling audience and suffer what Uttar already caused, likely for the last time.

So perhaps the best thing to do as you will never please everyone is to please those the way they choose, by servers. This keeps the ability to test all sorts of things and keeps the regular crowd happy. If you are successful enough to drive everyone to those servers it would be very easy to make those changes across the board.

Make a noob server, make a Pingu changes server, and leave the others alone unless admins decide otherwise. I suggest you modify the pole for this choice as another option. You have to clarify why making it easier for noobs would benefit the community, if there is no benefit because you are never going to attract new players, then is it really even a choice in a poll?

Please clarify what making it easier for noobs will accomplish knowing the above.


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: Java on July 14, 2008, 01:31:34 am
Very nicely said swilt.


Title: Re: Main Poll: Veterans or Beginners?
Post by: XiriC on July 14, 2008, 03:09:21 pm
I don't understand why these two things should exclude each other.
No need to read the rest, ...