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Savage XR => Mapping & Modding Forum => Topic started by: kLLik on December 24, 2017, 09:40:53 am



Title: old maps need remade
Post by: kLLik on December 24, 2017, 09:40:53 am
Hi, for example i have few screenshots with avenue_sep, is the same map with few changes.

You can see few screenshots with old and new.

Poll run for 7 days.


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: kLLik on December 24, 2017, 10:07:55 am
If you wanna see map in game.


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Tjens on December 24, 2017, 06:06:00 pm
I check out the map ingame, and I think it looks good abeit a little bit darkish! Get some more brightness and color in there for maximum looks!

As for the subject of remakes, always a good idea!


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Hakugei on December 24, 2017, 09:18:46 pm
Remaking is probably a good idea in general.
But be careful with naming and contact server admins about actually getting them played.


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: drk on December 26, 2017, 11:52:53 am
Yep. remaking is a good idea, but as for me I would make a v2 new map and leave old untouched in the same time.


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: kLLik on December 26, 2017, 02:30:53 pm
what's the point to upload it as new v2 map??.. I will upload this in avenue_sep... and if you need old version you will have a map named old_avenue_sep..

I try to remake old maps not to create new versions for them...


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: SavageBeard on December 26, 2017, 02:49:47 pm
If you actually replace an old map, it  has to be purely and without any question only a bug fix. That is my opinion. It should also be quite a large bug fix, not something minor like a terrain exploit.

What you have done qualifies as a remake, changing props and all that. That is all fine, but it would be uploaded as a v2, and not as a replacement to the original.

The original map is the original map. If you didn't make the map, you don't have the right to overwrite it with your remake. But you are free to upload your remake on the side.


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Daemon on December 26, 2017, 03:34:58 pm
Not to mention replays would be messed up.


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: kLLik on December 26, 2017, 04:24:08 pm
That's the problem with savage, You cannot give up with old maps, if we have chance to get a better version for original map why we can't do it? why we must keep both versions, old and new? 10 years ago that map had last update... No one don't give a shit about it.. and you talk about rights..

I just try to make some old maps to have a great looking scenary.. 


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Crashday on December 26, 2017, 05:36:04 pm
I get kLLik's point, not to forget that most players do not visit these forums and might not know about the remakes.
However, completely replacing old maps, especially those standard maps, is currently problematic.
If we were able save each version and would be able to restore a map to a previous state at any time then it would be no problem at all I guess.
As of right now I see no problem with replacing old maps if the changes only include texture/paint revamps.
If terrain is deformed or props are altered then I think a new map version is adequate.


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: SavageBeard on December 28, 2017, 06:27:53 pm
That's the problem with savage, You cannot give up with old maps, if we have chance to get a better version for original map why we can't do it? why we must keep both versions, old and new? 10 years ago that map had last update... No one don't give a shit about it.. and you talk about rights..

I just try to make some old maps to have a great looking scenary..  



When I went through all the maps in the newerth database a while back, there were a ton of remakes of popular maps. I would say some were pretty good, some were outright terrible and most were just pretty much mediocre. Which one of the countless remakes should have permanently replaced the original eden, by the way?

Even if it's just about changing textures, I think that's completely unneccesary. Did you really make it undeniably better, or just different? And how can you say that your version of different is the one that everyone should prefer?

There's no such thing as an obviously better version of an old map. It's your opinion, and not everyone will agree with it. Fan fiction is allowed, but you don't get to rewrite the original story. You're free to upload a map as a remake v2, and people can choose to play that version if they want to.


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: kLLik on December 29, 2017, 01:24:05 pm
When I went through all the maps in the newerth database a while back, there were a ton of remakes of popular maps. I would say some were pretty good, some were outright terrible and most were just pretty much mediocre. Which one of the countless remakes should have permanently replaced the original eden, by the way?

There is no good remake for eden2 yet.

Even if it's just about changing textures, I think that's completely unneccesary. Did you really make it undeniably better, or just different? And how can you say that your version of different is the one that everyone should prefer?

Yeah, its unneccesary, nohope example:
Lets have this:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ic7E6b/shot00010.png) (https://ibb.co/h6FOzw)
Not this:
(https://preview.ibb.co/mLpoXG/shot00009.png) (https://ibb.co/knDFCG)
Or this:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cHOyXG/shot00013.png) (https://ibb.co/hZjSRb)
And for sure not this:
(https://preview.ibb.co/eRPDXG/shot00012.png) (https://ibb.co/dHxYXG)

There's no such thing as an obviously better version of an old map. It's your opinion, and not everyone will agree with it. Fan fiction is allowed, but you don't get to rewrite the original story. You're free to upload a map as a remake v2, and people can choose to play that version if they want to.

Yeah is just my opinion, that's why i made a poll, so people can vote Good idea if they agree or Bad idea if they will not agree.

And avenue_sep, nohope and more others should be offline because they don't follow the rules.

General requirements of maps in order to be permitted:
  • a reasonable farclip setting between 2000 and 3600 (depends on the map)
  • fog switched on and visible
  • (proper) use of occluders
  • no exploits - especially check grimms walls in game for this!
  • no other bugs in general (e.g. spawn flags you can't spawn from)
  • overhead map images are required. they have to be in the jpg image format and 512x512 pixels in size.

avenue_sep have 100.000 farclip and nohope 10.000.


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Aneurysm on January 06, 2018, 11:13:02 am
No disrespect intended but honestly the original avenue_sep looks better than your rework. I would take a plain green textured map over that overstretched repeating canyon texture that you've tiled all over the hills.

This is the problem with remakes/reworks they are usually at best a subjectively slightly better version than the original rather than something that obviously stands as a truly improved upgrade. When you open the flood gates to people replacing originals rather than creating a version of that original, then you are placing all your hopes on the assumption that who ever is remaking the map has a higher level of skill or artistry than the original map creator.

I have certainly done my fair share of remakes, and I will be the first to admit that some of my earlier attempts leave a lot to be desired. But I guess this is all part of the learning curve of a map designer. Remaking maps is a great way to test and challenge your aesthetics. If in the end you truly make something worthy of replacing the original, then you will invariably see people start to adopt your version over the original at any rate as people will call the map they prefer.

Finally, your map also includes changes in the props and I think perhaps the terrain too? In this case, it is most certainly important to then ensure the map is considered an alternative version as this can obviously impact game play, even if those changes seem really small and insignificant to you on the surface, they can have much larger impacts on the balance of the game than may be first obvious.


Edit: I don't want to make it seem like I am shitting on your work btw kLLik. I think you have made some nice changes in your version. I simply think that its important to keep them as different versions.


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: SavageBeard on January 27, 2018, 09:57:25 pm
I want to say +1 to Aneurysm's comment.

Also I must say that while this remake was nothing special, kLLik, I think your contribution to the Savage mapping has been absolutely amazing, so many great maps that are fun to play, matched by very few people  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Bullet on January 28, 2018, 03:56:44 pm
I would like to comment that the purpose of remade maps should be not solely to make them look better, but also to make them more balanced. There is plenty of maps with shitty balance around, only a few goood maps which are balanced (xr_deja for example).


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Aneurysm on February 02, 2018, 11:10:35 pm
I would like to comment that the purpose of remade maps should be not solely to make them look better, but also to make them more balanced. There is plenty of maps with shitty balance around, only a few goood maps which are balanced (xr_deja for example).

Yes but this just validates the need to keep the naming different because then you are changing the map in a fundamental way. While it may seem like you are balancing the map (at the time of creation), sometimes only the perspective of time actually proves how balanced a map really is. When you look back at a map you've made after hundreds of plays and it demonstrates a good split in wins between the two races, then you have some sort of empirical validation. Until that point, it really is just assumption.


Title: Old maps remake!
Post by: Tjens on September 10, 2018, 12:13:11 pm
So I finally got around making a new map, and decided to re-create the most played map in Savage, kinixxx (nonono tjens) izi.

First of all, I tried to make the terrain more life-like by creating natural hills and slopes. The terrain also features more diverse textures, and both bases have a distinct style. Although some features have been changed to diversify the meta a little bit, here has been an effort to remain true to kinixx's core gameplay.

Please everyone, tell me how you think these changes will affect gameplay!

Possible issues:
* The terrain is too hilly, making melee not as smooth
* It's too eazy to summ shield
* Beasts can dig into their base too eazily
* The FPS has been impacted
* Need your input!




(https://preview.ibb.co/hnvdH9/shot00006.png) (https://ibb.co/bOqCc9)
In the human frontal base there is a slight ramp leading up a hut that makes it it harder to completely close off the front part of the base, adding extra difficulty for human commanders.

(https://preview.ibb.co/hdG7AU/shot00001.png) (https://ibb.co/fyyb4p)
In the back there is a little bit of extra room for buildings to make up for the lost space the hills take in. The hills have also been lowered ever so slightly, so it might be possible to summon the shield from some certain angles!

(https://preview.ibb.co/bwWUPp/shot00004.png) (https://ibb.co/bCxQx9)
The beast base also recieved a building to give human players a mustering point and a place to further attack from. This hopefully encourages a more aggresive playstyle while demorunning. The waterfall also gives some ranged cover. The front hill now has a slope so beasts can more safely construct an agressive sublair.

(https://preview.ibb.co/bVhEqU/shot00005.png) (https://ibb.co/dvapPp)
Beast back base now has a small hiding spot for all you ambushers out there.

(https://preview.ibb.co/gMJb4p/shot00002.png) (https://ibb.co/kDmUPp)
The flag areas now have more natural slopes and a little more room overall.

(https://preview.ibb.co/jOhsc9/shot00003.png) (https://ibb.co/nx17AU)
The midsection now has an autominer instead of a redstone mine, to stimulate mid centred action even more. 1 small redstone mine per base has been removed for balance. Also added: tiny hiding spot for injured healers.




Mapfile is here! (http://www.newerth.com/?id=maps&mid=2846)

Things to do: Make minimap!


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Necrophiliac on September 10, 2018, 04:29:54 pm
Think this is izi,not kinixxx :) Would love to test it on public server then give you some feedback  :angel:

P.S Make more maps )


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: drk on September 10, 2018, 11:45:51 pm
Could I ask you to remove the rain? :) (would be less laggy for somebody)


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Tjens on September 10, 2018, 11:55:53 pm
Could I ask you to remove the rain? :) (would be less laggy for somebody)

Does anyone know if there is a command to disable rain on clients?  :roll:

Alternatively, how can I disable rain showing up on the map?


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: drk on September 11, 2018, 08:55:14 pm
Could I ask you to remove the rain? :) (would be less laggy for somebody)

Does anyone know if there is a command to disable rain on clients?  :roll:

Alternatively, how can I disable rain showing up on the map?
The only thing I know that on the client you can do commands like /rain or /snow to toggle it.


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Nanaa on September 11, 2018, 09:56:50 pm
Could I ask you to remove the rain? :) (would be less laggy for somebody)

Does anyone know if there is a command to disable rain on clients?  :roll:

Alternatively, how can I disable rain showing up on the map?
The only thing I know that on the client you can do commands like /rain or /snow to toggle it.
That's one way.

The other way might be editing the config-file inside your map file and set:

set Weather0Rain 0
set Weather1Rain 0
...
set Weather9Rain 0

(izi.cfg had those set like that. Idk if it works)


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Tjens on September 11, 2018, 11:33:38 pm
Oh damn you're right! I should have looked at izi out of all places  :roll:


Title: Eazy 2.0 - Human Engineering!
Post by: Tjens on October 28, 2018, 08:57:43 pm
After 32 games with an exact 50-50 devide between beast and humans wins you could say Eazy is doing pretty O.K. statistically! Nevertheless I would like to keep developing the map and add some tweaks from time to time to keep gameplay interesting and fresh.

Eazy 2.0 - Human engineering

Humans always have a though time playing any map, really. All the Legion wants is build nice bases and keep safe from a distance, preferring to keep in save range of their towers. Some engineers were bored having to constantly repair the siege units being used as static defence towers and rumbled through some ancient scrolls from the Chaplains monestary. While digging deep in the libraries they discovered many chapters of hidden knowledge and adapted a saying of old: "the best defence is a great offencive" and started thinking of ways to make their advance more agressive and keep the siege weapons out of their own bases.

(https://preview.ibb.co/duV7kq/shot00000.png) (https://ibb.co/fqEYQq)
They placed a ramp going up the building in front of their house near their base, giving them better access to their home flag.

(https://preview.ibb.co/nKcL5q/shot00002.png) (https://ibb.co/kca7kq)
Near their upper side of the bridge they carved a slope downwards heading to the beast flag, giving them better access capturing the bit once their wall is down. Their excavations also made it possible to finally reach the little ladder leading to a platform, to sneakily capture the beast flag when needed.

(https://preview.ibb.co/hobDQq/shot00003.png) (https://ibb.co/fVSbdA)
After their shields got taken down by summoner blasts from the middle they also decided to carve up their side of the mountain a bit, so their shield is a little more protected. They also moved a couple of trees for even more shield cover.

(https://preview.ibb.co/hgeYQq/shot00004.png) (https://ibb.co/bHa7kq)
Likewise, they also moved some ground at the back of their base to make more room for buildings, as human commanders had very little space to build there in the past.

(https://preview.ibb.co/kQCnkq/shot00005.png) (https://ibb.co/nynL5q)
The Legion did'nt only commit on changing the landscape on their side of the map, as some of the forward mountain got taken down by forward sentries, giving attacking parties more room to manouver to the beast base.




I'll be replacing the original eazy with this version to give it more exposure, and will tweak and change following player feedback!

Map file and update log (http://www.newerth.com/?id=maps&mid=2846)


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Daemon on October 30, 2018, 09:02:13 am
...thus opening the door to large scale deforestation.


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Nanaa on November 02, 2018, 08:19:46 pm
Hey Tjenzore,

(https://preview.ibb.co/duV7kq/shot00000.png)

^ That hill between the ramp and monkits is climbable and exploitable


Title: Re: old maps need remade
Post by: Tjens on November 05, 2018, 08:29:34 pm
Thats wierd, I thought I fixed it!

Updated map once more  :lol: