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Savage XR => General Savage XR Discussion => Topic started by: Daemon on December 03, 2010, 12:35:06 pm



Title: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 03, 2010, 12:35:06 pm
Hey here's my list for improving/evolving Savage. It consists of adding stuff, not changing stuff. Stuff which won't be forced upon anyone, of course. Servers would have a cvar that enables or disables the "extended" version.

After XR 1.0 is done, and Savage Heroes is done, i plan on starting to add a new tech line to both races. ATM, plans are as follows:

- thanks to the new GameScript commands (!changeunit specifically, which allows the player to retain their items even if changing to another unit), along with the new field shops code (which allows different supplies of items in shops placed around the map, HoN style) we will be able to have the player enter dedicated buildings, BUY A VEHICLE and/or items, and automatically spawn IN THE SAME PLACE he entered the shop from, and instantly turn into the vehicle he bought. After leaving the vehicle, the player will get back to the unit + the items he had before entering the vehicle.

Possible new buildings, units and items, the final list not done yet, much depending on feedback and balancing and silverback capabilities + the ability to code the new features.

Humans
Technology: Mechanics. A new constructable building, looking like a factory/workshop with a launch pad.

Vechicles (Units):

1. A fast one-man vehicle like a bike, trike or quad, with a forward, fixed weapon, possibly machine gun.
2. A Mech, a one-man 2 legged armored vehicle (much like a Star Wars walker), with a couple of different weapons: short range, weaker chaingun and some kind of mortar/launcher/cannon with siege capabilities.
3. An APC (armored personnel carrier). Model already existing. Should be able to load up a number of players and transport them to destination. Unarmed, but heavily armored.
4. A battle platform. Probably a slow, tracked vehicle, with rotating weapon that can be manned by a player, and a few spots for passengers which should be able to shoot while traveling, and get on and off at anytime.

Items
1. Deployable turret. Small, automated defensive turret which behaves much like any tower.
2. Rearming station. Starsiege Tribes style, small field supply depots where you can rearm and resupply specific items/weapons.
3. Repair robots. Fixed, small robots that can slowly fix vehicles, including old siege ones.

These units will not be very large or very strong. Fire will still be able to kill most of them, since they'll be all made of wood, like catas/ballis. They will probably be vulnerable to melee more, being rather unable to defend at close range, some more than others, and they won't have 1-shot-1-kill projectiles.

Beasts
Technology: Morphing. A new constructable building, looking like a Starcraft spawning pool.

Vechicles (Units):
1. Roller. A small, organic, flaming ball, which rolls over the terrain, with a weaker but permanent fire-buff, damaging whatever it comes into contact with.
2. Spawner. A lizard that can cyclically create smallish minions, which attack the enemies around their master.
3. Glider. A slow, heavy hovering unit (only an illusion, never actually leaves the ground), with a mid ranged siege weapon, designed to fill the gap between Behe and Summoner.
4. Hive. A very weak and slow, mobile spawning point.

Items
1. Ether. Item which allows walking through buildings for a very, very short amount of time. Prolly no further than 1 tower.
2. Stone Skin. Item which turns the user into 'stone' for a short time, being invulnerable or close to, while unable to move or attack.
3. Polymorph. After enabling it, you turn into the unit you point your x-hair at, and turn back after a while or after being hit.

As with the beast "vehicles", the players won't be able to leave them. They would have to be brought back to base where the players can get their old units back.


-----
For now, my intention is to add only a limited amount of units of each tier. The lower the tier, the more you can have at the same time. 3 ATVs, 2 Mechs, 1 Transport and 1 Battle Platform. Mohican suggested it should be the comm that builds them like workers, and the vehicles spawn around the factory, ready for players to ride them with the E key. Maybe we'll have hums do it this way, and beasts having to pay for their own units...


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Faun on December 03, 2010, 10:25:26 pm
Daemon are you a Battlezone Veteran?


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: UnnamedNewbie(20) on December 03, 2010, 10:30:09 pm
Savage 2 and HoN inc


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Feathers on December 04, 2010, 01:57:47 pm
adding it on to savage will be pointless; remembering Extreme Savage failed (how many people actually played it more than 5 games?). If you want this to succeed you will probably need to advertise it as a new game or likewise  :|


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Aneurysm on December 05, 2010, 12:54:04 pm
The immature bitching, cheap shots and general lack of respect that is shown by a fair number of people in this community makes me sick sometimes. It's truly amazing to me what a little bit of anonymity does for giving "cowardly lions" a brave face. As my dearly departed grandma used to say to me, if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all. Censor your attitudes people before I start doing it for you.

Thanks.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Mooseeeeey on December 05, 2010, 07:58:07 pm
I think a really cool addition to the mechanics thing would be like being able to pick whch weapons go on your vehicle, and with the beasts you could pick what weapon your minion things have.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 05, 2010, 08:00:41 pm
Yeah, pretty nice one for the minions, at least :). He could spawn melee fighters, ranged units or some tiny-ass kamikaze bugs :).


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: -Kerberos- on December 06, 2010, 10:30:12 am
Some of ur ideas sound good, but really, I don't like the idea to make Savage even more ranged based game.
Melee is the reason why I play Savage instead of CS or unreal tournament.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 06, 2010, 11:04:42 am
Some of ur ideas sound good, but really, I don't like the idea to make Savage even more ranged based game.
Melee is the reason why I play Savage instead of CS or unreal tournament.

You know it won't make it to any NSL. Would be just for fun.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Django on December 08, 2010, 10:41:40 am
The immature bitching, cheap shots and general lack of respect that is shown by a fair number of people in this community makes me sick sometimes. It's truly amazing to me what a little bit of anonymity does for giving "cowardly lions" a brave face. As my dearly departed grandma used to say to me, if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all. Censor your attitudes people before I start doing it for you.

Thanks.




Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: UnnamedNewbie(20) on December 08, 2010, 02:38:18 pm
Wondering how much more mods it will take, till someone gets, that nobody will be playing them for more than 1 or 2 weeks.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Trigardon on December 08, 2010, 02:49:54 pm
Wondering how much more mods it will take, till someone gets, that nobody will be playing them for more than 1 or 2 weeks.

How many mods must a man create... surely another good song from bob dylan if he would make it.

Anyways, I have to say that the idea itself is good, but prolly for the wrong game?


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Mohican on December 08, 2010, 03:55:13 pm
Wondering how much more mods it will take, till someone gets, that nobody will be playing them for more than 1 or 2 weeks.

There is a small crowd of people who regularly plays Samurai Wars and Extreme.
Just for the sake of those people, it was worth spending time on the mods.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 08, 2010, 04:01:44 pm
Wondering how much more mods it will take, till someone gets, that nobody will be playing them for more than 1 or 2 weeks.

Sorry to break it to you like this, but everybody dies eventually. Games and mods do that, too, including Savage. So if Savage will die, eventually, why wait, shouldn't we just put it out of its misery right now, and just closed down everything, servers and all, just because they won't live forever?

I think that if properly implemented, certain new ideas can add to Savage's replayability. A bunch of new units like a Mech would make me have more fun than with the same old stuff.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Takz on December 08, 2010, 08:01:49 pm

So if Savage will die, eventually, why wait, shouldn't we just put it out of its misery right now, and just closed down everything, servers and all, just because they won't live forever?

Even though it was sarcastic, I'd rather see this happen than watching it go further downhill


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 08, 2010, 08:49:23 pm

So if Savage will die, eventually, why wait, shouldn't we just put it out of its misery right now, and just closed down everything, servers and all, just because they won't live forever?

Even though it was sarcastic, I'd rather see this happen than watching it go further downhill

If you think it's dying, why do you people feel the need to stick around to watch Savage expire, while infecting others with your pessimistic attitudes?


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Takz on December 08, 2010, 10:15:03 pm



If you think it's dying, why do you people feel the need to stick around to watch Savage expire, while infecting others with your pessimistic attitudes?

I don't "think" it's dying. It's a fact that it is.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Hakugei on December 08, 2010, 10:45:29 pm
From what I see, there's an increaase in new players.
Not to mention that Mohi's FPS patches make XR more popular.
Those facts kind of counter your supposed "facts". :p


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 08, 2010, 10:52:29 pm

If you think it's dying, why do you people feel the need to stick around to watch Savage expire, while infecting others with your pessimistic attitudes?

I don't "think" it's dying. It's a fact that it is.

For you, maybe it did. But then, what are you doing here? If it's not working for you anymore, can't you people abstain from ruining it for everyone else? Or do we need to be saved, and you're the one that took it upon himself to open our eyes?

This is a topic for discussing new tech i intend on adding. If you don't have anything better to do but to preach apocalypse, go create a mass-suicide cult.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: phuck on December 12, 2010, 01:25:35 pm
I don't know if I personally would play this mod...I tried samurai and extreme and didn't play them much since you need to learn all new tactics and adjust to new game style and I like good old savage too much :D... but one thing I really would like to see implemented in savage is supply depots. Ability to resupply ammo/mana would make for beasts with ranged weapons so much more interesting since they wouldn't need to stay so close to subs to replenish mana fast :)... supply depots could also offer ability to switch weapon (but only like few choices randomly picked at the start of match so it wouldn't feel like shopping at garr/sub) and buy additional items (either certain items all time or randomly picked, cause i don't really want humies buying meds at every depot).
also if certain npc would drop ammo/mana all the time then it could be treated as ammo/mana resupplier, cause atm only large groups of chiprels offer similiar capabilities :)


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Faun on December 12, 2010, 01:30:52 pm
Yeah, I also had to puzzle about the question why these NPC´s drop so little ammo/mana. It makes going for NPC´s ammo pointless, since you end up with 2 coil shots after killing 5 monkits; Since you want to do that when you are "at the front" its too dangerous to farm those creeps endlessly until you got your ammo full, also going back is way faster...


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 12, 2010, 10:25:37 pm
you need to learn all new tactics and adjust to new game style and I like good old savage too much :D... but one thing I really would like to see implemented in savage is supply depots.
I've been putting a lot of thought into this, and i'm not your average brainless modder :P. I am focusing my planning on not affecting actual gameplay too much. For example: if you'll face the "roller" unit, the permanently firebuffed ball-like beast, you will already know how to act against it (blocking, relocking, running etc...). If you see an APC incoming, you can pretty much kill it the same way you do with catas, maybe a bit harder. The wooden Mech would have a block and possibly a melee attack so you would be able to rabid it to death.

As for resupply / trading points, there are a whole bunch of modes and uses: buying specific consumables and/or weapons, slowly refilling ammo, regenerating mana/stam/health, trading in one item for another, item merging using upgrades you can find there etc.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: NightFox on December 23, 2010, 07:40:59 pm
I like some of these ideas and think that they would make for more interesting gameplay. When i heard that savage 2 was coming out i was hoping it would keep the same savage style, implement new things such as the things you mentioned.

In my opinion i would like to see only 2 things come out of the list that you provided.(i think they are all good ideas i just think that some of the ideas change the feel of savage a bit too much.)

1. Having a unit for both sides that (like the walkers from starwars and the fireball rolling idea) that have mid ranged to close up weapons that deal damage to units and not buildings is a good idea. It would be fun to see a 2 legged wooden machine with a repeater style machine gun attached to the front of it with much more limited range than actual repeaters, charging into battle behind some melee units providing cover fire.(the could be 1.5Xs a flux guns range) I think a heavy unit for both teams with good armor and limited attack power like a armored walker half the size of a behe in height with a  repeater attachd for humans and the light flame buff rolling unit that goes a single speed of a sprinting scav or nomad for beasts and  that support regular units in battle and do little dmg to buildingswould be a new and fun aspect to savage (xr) that would even feel good in NSL.

These units could either be built in

-side not: These units should not be unit killing machines and their weapons should be for supporting units on the battle field by providing cover fire or in the beasts case a melee cover distraction that way you do not have mass numbers of these units on the field mowing eachother down , but having a couple for cover would improve each sides battle.

2. the mana/supply depot stations: I like the strategy in savage 2 that comes along with these stations since it allows the battles to go on for longer. I think they should only allow players to revive their ammunition or not items. IT should not allow players to buy new weapons either. Beasts have a large disadvantage Humans get around this in battle by having the ammo pack and relocator which allows them to shoot for longer periods of time and safely move further away from garrisons with their ranged weapons since they can relocate back to their garrison restock and head back out. If the mana stone allowed beasts to recharge much faster, then i would say the 2 races would be even in that aspect but then their is the medpack for humans which also means humans can stay alive longer in a gun fight before heading back. having these ammunition/man stations would allow the fight for both sides to last longer at further distances form their sublairs/garrisons.

In order to make it work while keeping the same feel of savage(xr) you shouldn't allow any unit other than the three (melee) units for each race ex: scav, stalker, and pred) to replenish in these mana/supply stations. Siege units shoul dbe left out. The only exception to the three basic units for each race would be the Chaplin for humans since he has the health regeneration item. that would be the only item allowed to regenrate for the humans side.

These stations should be treated as commander buildings and the commander should have to spend a small amount of stone say 100-200 stone to have them and they could only be placed a certain distance away from a sub/gar. that way the battle can stay away form the gar/sub but still not allow a commander to plop one down across the map in an opposing teams base . if it stays up after a garr/sub as been destroyed it will still stand until it is destroyed. I think a good distance fomr a sub.gar would be 1.5xs-2xs the distance of a shield or healing spire can protect another spire.

those are the 2 aspects i really liked that seemed to keep the feel of savage(xr) the same, but upgraded the fun and game play. It is unfortunate that others do not understand or can not come to terms that there is a difference from changing a game completely and upgrading or adding new elements to a game to keep the feel the same but adding some interesting strategies that were not available or thought up at the time of the creation of the game.

I hope my opinion helps a little and i look forward to the new elements to savage. new developments will keep the game alive and will continue to bring in new players. The game needs to evolve and though NSL may not use these new elements which is perfectly fine, servers that have 60 players going at at a time will definitely benefit form them.

   







Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 23, 2010, 08:40:28 pm
Yeah, NightFox, that's certainly a well thought post with interesting ideas which will surely be used be if the mod ever sees the light of day.

Quote from: NightFox
If the mana stone allowed beasts to recharge much faster, then i would say the 2 races would be even in that aspect but then their is the medpack for humans which also means humans can stay alive longer in a gun fight before heading back.

One of the very very few changes i wanna make to the original way items/weapons work, is that I intend on making the Mana Stone provide the same increase in mana it does now, plus making it consumable, meaning you can use it frenzy-style and get your full mana back.

In terms of the way the Roller would be used, i imagined it more like a harassing unit, a fast moving annoyance :), and the Glider more like the frontline tank.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: NightFox on December 23, 2010, 09:11:01 pm
i like the idea of heavy armored units that don;t do 1 hit kill dmg and do medium unit dmg. it makes them more of a meatshield than an all powerful noob blasting unit.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Cross on December 23, 2010, 09:30:17 pm
While this sounds fun and all, I'd much, much prefer fine tuning of the tech trees we have now and proper balance over adding more and more. It's like adding an addition to a house with a crumbling, shaking foundation. First fix the foundation, then add to the house.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Mooseeeeey on December 23, 2010, 09:52:07 pm
I just thought of something kind of interesting: what if you made a turret building that a player could control?


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 23, 2010, 10:03:45 pm
While this sounds fun and all, I'd much, much prefer fine tuning of the tech trees we have now and proper balance over adding more and more. It's like adding an addition to a house with a crumbling, shaking foundation. First fix the foundation, then add to the house.
Because i don't think the current game needs any tweaking, and as i've already said a million times, this is not a balancing thread. There are a million devs which can work on balancing, i just add stuff. Even if Newerth's policy was to allow balance changes, i would be the most reluctant admin to embrace it. Anyhow, this is a topic about my suggestions to bring a fresh breath of air to the game, any other balance posts will be deleted from discussion topics unrelated to balancing.

But to make it clear where i stand:

EVERY SINGLE SUCCESSFUL GAME relied on new content, including Savage (e.g. medics/shams). Games like Warcraft kept adding new content patches, add-ons etc, to keep players hooked. New stuff will save you, not +/- dmg values in the 7th year of a game's existence. The only reason why you'd want "rebalancing" is cuz you're got tired of the old game. Even when somebody else is gonna do all the work, adding new units/items/stuff, you still reject the idea. But how many players will bring (back) the balance changes?

"Hey, come back to Savage! We got huge surprises in store for you, like the Incinerator damage increase by 12.1% and Rupture now with even more splash!"

vs.

"We've added 8 new units, 4 new buildings, 12 new items, making for new gameplay opportunities and the biggest additions Savage has ever seen!"


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: NightFox on December 23, 2010, 11:45:34 pm
Quote
EVERY SINGLE SUCCESSFUL GAME relied on new content, including Savage (e.g. medics/shams). Games like Warcraft kept adding new content patches, add-ons etc, to keep players hooked. New stuff will save you, not +/- dmg values in the 7th year of a game's existence. The only reason why you'd want "rebalancing" is cuz you're got tired of the old game. Even when somebody else is gonna do all the work, adding new units/items/stuff, you still reject the idea. But how many players will bring (back) the balance changes?

I agree completely, If you look at the development of starcraft which did a bunch of their balancing updates early on, once they feel it is finally set they leave it alone. Then came the expansion of broodwar which added new elements to the game with new units like the medics for Terran, lurkers for zerg, and dark temps for protoss and they only tweaked the balance of the NEW UNITS added. not old units.

Savage has had its balancing act and now it is ready for the new developments to take place. Adding these units may imbalance the game a bit, but that is when you tweak the balance of the NEW UNITS not the old ones. Savage is in much need for some NEW strategical changes to the game and not balance changes. The tactics of the 3 tiers and 3 weapons types have been pretty much worn down to the nub. (no not noob haha). I think adding these new units will bring about some new strategies since right now every commander does the same thing over and over and over again since the tactics of the game haven't changed much. The challange of being a commander on ssavage needs a boost and some versatility and i think you are on the right track. I hope you keep in mind that the feel of the game should stay the same because that is what we have grown to love the feel of the melee weapons the feel of the behemoths the feel of the commander commanding real players and not AI. By adding new tactics with the same feel this game will pick  up some new users and bring out the old ones form the woodworks.   








Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 24, 2010, 12:23:10 pm
I just thought of something kind of interesting: what if you made a turret building that a player could control?

As Kerberos said, careful consideration has to be taken not to veer the game too much towards the use of ranged weapons and away from the melee. This is why i'm already re-thinking some of the ideas i've already posted, like turning the Mech into more of an Aliens IV Resurrection kinda robot than a Starwars Walker, with a nomad controlling it much like Ripley did.

But if technical aspects will allow it, there should be a manned turret on the Battle Platform vehicle.

(http://io9.com/assets/resources/2008/04/RipleyPowerloader.jpg)
(http://www.oziegoods.com/prodimages/Htpowerloader/Aliens_Power%20Loader%20with%20Ellen%20Ripley_02.jpg)


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Feathers on December 24, 2010, 01:00:17 pm
look good but what does it do in terms of melee/ranged/building?


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 24, 2010, 02:57:36 pm
Not sure yet, but i'm thinking giving it a rocket launcher for the right hand and a shield for the left one. If possible, it would have the(/a special) ability to raise the shield in front of him and maintain it for longer periods of time, like 5 seconds, so it can take some heat behe style in the front line. Also it would have a slow turning speed, a little faster than ballis do, and no side stepping/strafing.

As for melee, i'm thinking of giving it some kind of circular saw blades for both hands, always spinning, and after blocking, it would have a very quick 1-2 combo with the right and then left hand, looking a bit like throwing jabs a training bag.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Feathers on December 24, 2010, 03:06:41 pm
is there a cool down on the shield or is it one shield and when its gone its gone?


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 24, 2010, 04:40:48 pm
I'm awaiting suggestions :).


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: JustSomeNewb on January 01, 2011, 08:28:24 pm
Hey, sounds real cool, but i would say that you need to make a kind of workshop for the, where the commander must order the build of one of the vehicles, as they would be to large to simply get in stronghold.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on January 01, 2011, 08:56:53 pm
Quote from: Daemon
Humans
Technology: Mechanics. A new constructable building, looking like a factory/workshop with a launch pad.

Maybe something like this:
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-garage-small/288439
or this:
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-garage-big/288437


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: JustSomeNewb on January 01, 2011, 09:27:38 pm
the second one looks cooler i think


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Nanaa on January 02, 2011, 09:51:35 pm
Hey Daemon, that's a cool plan you got there. Some things got my attention:

4. Hive. A very weak and slow, mobile spawning point.
.
.
.
As with the beast "vehicles", the players won't be able to leave them. They would have to be brought back to base where the players can get their old units back.

I don't know what were you thinking, but please don't tell me that the Hive is controlled by a field player  :lol:
Who would morph into a slow, unarmed spawning point, then go wait in some tactical location let's say for 10 long minutes untill someone finally destroys you?  :? I'd personally be bored to death, no offence. So pls make it only buildable and controllable by the commander, much like it would be a worker.

1. Ether. Item which allows walking through buildings for a very, very short amount of time. Prolly no further than 1 tower.

What happens when the time is up and you're still inside of some building? Should you stay there immobilized and be able to melee... or should you get instagibbed? I think that instagib is the one and only option. Otherwise unshielded buildings like forward garrisons would absolutely have no chance of surving as the beasts would melee/sac them down from inside  :-D


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on January 03, 2011, 04:31:22 am
As i've said, i haven't worked out the exact details, that's why i made this topic, to gather suggestions. But yes, re-materializing inside a building should kill you on the spot.

As for the hive, just as more often than not, human players are willing to travel across the map, wait for minutes for the right opportunity and then start building on a sneak garr with lego, even, i'm sure there will be some team players who would give up precious time for the team effort instead of frags :).


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Nanaa on January 03, 2011, 11:45:42 am
As for the hive, just as more often than not, human players are willing to travel across the map, wait for minutes for the right opportunity and then start building on a sneak garr with lego, even, i'm sure there will be some team players who would give up precious time for the team effort instead of frags :).

Well yeah, there are always the "pacifists" who rather teamplay as a healer or as a basebitch. On the second thought, I could do it gladly too. If I needed a small break, I could just grab some food and drink, drive my hive to it's destination and have a picnic while i'm there  :lol:  And still efforting my team :wink:


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: NightFox on January 07, 2011, 08:23:43 pm
Another idea would be a whole new tech line for both teams. Only choosing one tech line to work from may give you some good ideas on some new weapons, units, or players.

You could possibly do for humans a gravity tech line since human tech seems to be based on scientific discoveries. 2 new items that could be researched could be (1) some kind of item that pulls beast units toward you a little so when they leap in at you and try to leap away they cant leap back as far. It could be like the sixth sense item where as long as you are alive and it is equipped it constantly runs. It would be a slight pull towards the player wearing it not something that yanks a beast player towards a the human player and hold them captive. It could be the item that costs 200 stone (2) There could be a push item that you can only use 2 times and it could push beast units way from you. This could be used in different situations such as pushing behes/saccers/and other units away from buildings or preventing them form getting to the buildings. The push woul dhave to be significant but not too big that it blows them back a mile. This could be the item that costs 300.

I have not thought of weapons for this tech line yet but they would obviously be gravity themed.

For beasts since they are a magic based tech line you could do some kind of water tech line with water items and water weapons. I did not think the beast one through too much but i will think it through a bit more when i have time.

I one new tech line with some neat items and weapons and a new buff for each team would make for a great upgrade in the game. IT wouldn't change the feel too much it would force new strategies and a whole bunch more. It would make new counters to existing strategies and it wouldn't compromise the savage feel. 


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Rostner on January 07, 2011, 08:32:08 pm
I really like your idea for the gravity items/weapons, Nightfox!!! Looking forward to your ideas for weapons for this tech line, and the water tech line as well. :D


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Hakugei on January 07, 2011, 08:36:44 pm
"Pushing" is very buggy in silverback, so that's probably not going to happen - unless that part is fixed/rewritten.
Just a fair warning so you know.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Mohican on January 08, 2011, 01:22:47 pm
"Pushing" is very buggy in silverback, so that's probably not going to happen - unless that part is fixed/rewritten.
Just a fair warning so you know.

Definetely not in XR1.0.
But my vision of XR2.0 fits nicely with this kind of techline.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: NightFox on January 12, 2011, 04:47:17 pm
So I had some time to give my idea some more thought and here is the Humans Tech line laid out in full. (this is a lot of typing so beast will come later)

Humans: Gravity Tech Line (colors black with dark purple outline): Items: (1) The first item (costing 200 stone) to research would be a gravity field. What this does is for a certain amount of time you would be shielded from beast ranged weapons such as the strata weapons and summoner attacks. This could be a good counter to the summ whoring and temp/lightning attacks since players like to sit back . It would be very similar to the beasts storm item that shields beasts from all chem attacks and mines. (2) The push item (costing 300 stone). This would be as i explained before, an item that you could only carry 2 of that pushes beast units away from the player who is using the item in the direction directly opposite of when it is used. It should not push players too far you don't want them flying around the map. But enough power so that it sets a decent distance from the player using the item so he/she can bide themselves some time. This item could also be a good counter to the behe trains that demolish human defenses. It could be used to push a behe back far enough so that you can get a couple more second of shooting in and maybe some more units spawn. It could help counter sac rushes if humans could push back saccers causing some of them to detonate early seeing as they were pushed back a bit possibly twice. it would bide the commander more time to build defenses or set up a sneak garrison.

The cost for the Gravity field (item 1) could be somewhere around 800-1000 gold since it is only 1 item to buy. the cost for the push item could be 500 gold per item bought.

The Gravity weapons (color dark purple or black looking kinda like what someone would imagine anti-matter to look like):Lvl(1) This could be a new design. It could look like a hollow black or dark purple cone starting at a point and growing. It is hard to explain the vision i have in my head for this. If you would liek some more explainaition let me know. It would have a short range like the scatter gun or the tourch gun  Lvl (2): like the entropy lvl 1 it could be a black ball doing more damage a little less than a rocket or mortar except no splash damage. It could help in taking down siege units. and having the same properties as the entropy level 1. Obviously the graphic effects would look less magic and more clean cut like a ball of energy. Lvl (3) this could be like the lvl 2 gravity weapon but with the same damage as the rockets with no splash damage.

With the buff and tower i was thinking of leaving them out of it. If you wanted a buff it could repel units away from a player as for the tower it could shoot slow the movement of units down around it makingit more difficult for saccer to run pass the tower or behes to rush into the base.The tower would nto be able to shoot at all. It would be similar to a shield tower. taking 4 hits with summ to knock down without being shielded and have a range for the slowing of units to be maybe half or 1/3 that of the actual shield tower.

I did my part to boost up the humans and give them more options and a better chance to go on the offensive. what are your thoughts savage community ??? :)

beast water tech line coming soon


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Rostner on January 12, 2011, 05:19:20 pm
I really like the idea for the items. Not quite sure what you want with the weapons though. Maybe you could sketch what you think they would look like with some technical specifications as well. That would make it more clear.

Looking forward to your thoughts for the water tech line.  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: NightFox on January 13, 2011, 06:20:30 pm
Before i start my large discussion on the new beast tech line i would like to just explain why I think new tech lines will have a positive effect on this old but good game.

One aspect that i noticed this game is lacking is variety. The 3 tech lines for humans and beast just isn't enough variety. Though they have been balanced as much as possible the game gets stale on the amount of strategies a commander can implement into the game. As an experienced commander I feel that after learning the few strategies that beasts and humans have to offer the skill level plains off, I find myself doing the same old builds over and over again and the players get the same old weapons over and over again. The commanders role in non league games has really become the slave of the game. Players expect their commanders to get the at the very least for humans, Flux/coil, reloc, meds, ammo, demo, siege, mines, and ocasionally chaps (i may have left out something). For the beasts it seems fire-blaze+items, strata-temp+items, shamans, siege, and melee weapons. and both teams just require that the commander buff them like crazy. The role of commander should not be the slave it should be the commander. With that said to change this up variety to the different techs that a commander can use will diminish the slave role and change it more to commander role. I would even go as far as to say add 3 more tech lines to each team to give humans and beasts 6 different tech lines. WIth this many options for the commander the number of strategies is endless. A new resource would also come in to play, SCOUTING. It's funny since you would think scouting is a large part of the game now, but it really isn't, since the only real reason to scout now is to see where the beasts or humans place their outposts and if one is planning a rush or not. WIth many different tech lines scouting the base for which tech lines the commander decides to use would be crucial for countering those tech lines. RIght now if a commander goes sac rush, you go flux, if a comm goes strata you get mag and get your shield. But with the addition of new tech lines it will go from if the opposing commander gets this weapon first to if this commander goes this tech line first or these 2 tech lines i get these two. The use of the tier 1 one weapos really has fallen to the waste side as well.

When i see savage i see a mirror of starcraft with the ability to play as the units. The game really should be more heavily weighed on the ability of the commander than it is now. Not to say it isn;t weighed at all but the skill level of a commander levels once a commander realizes get this tech first on this map then get a sub here. and humans comms realize the very basic if beast get fire i get flux, if beasts get strata i get mag, if beasts get summs i need coil. There jsut is not enough variety.

Ok enough of the explanations of why we need mroe tech lines now i will attempt to create the water tech line.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: NightFox on January 13, 2011, 08:24:56 pm
Beast water tech line: beasts are the aggressive race and win the majority of the games so i do not want to give them too many more offensive advantages, so i think the water tech should be for defense.

items: (1) since one defensive problems beast have is killing those pesky siege units, especially the catas with all the health i thought a good first item costing (200 stone) would be a ball of water (since water rots and erodes wood) that you can hold 3 of this item in your inventory and throw at siege units (like a immobilizer). This item could do 1 of 2 things. It could either boost the attack damage of beast melee for a short period of time allowing beasts to get some extra damage on a siege unit or it could do a constant damage like venom but a bit more power to it. I think this would definitely help beast in defending against siege units and killing those rouge ballis or catas that one beast player finds wandering around the back door.(2) this item would be the (300 stone) item and it would work like the human Chaplin potion. It would have the same timer as mist or storm and would would regenerate health at an accelerated rate. (same rate as Human chaplin potion).

Weapons: (1) this could mimic the humans chem lvl 1 tourch shooting out a low powered mist of water instead.. It would obviously be from a staff and not a gun. (2) this weapon could do extra damage to siege units and could be like surge shooting out a more powerful stram of water. (3) could mimic the pulse canon with small area damage and doing more damage to siege units. this weapon shoots out a "pulse" or burst of water very high powered burst.

The water spire could lesson the damage of cata shots on in the surrounding area of the water spire. the distance in which this effect would occur would be shorter than that of a healing spire. it would deter the damage catas could do on spires

The buff could be liek the fire buffs damage but to siege units only.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: NightFox on January 14, 2011, 01:04:42 am
Also. another item option for humans gravity tech could be gravity boots allowing humans to sprint faster. This could also be a "sixth sense" style item where as long as you have it an are alive it is constantly in affect. You could either tie it into the stamina bar where as long as you are sprinting and using stamina you get some extra speed or you could tack it on so that your normal run besides was slight faster but not as fast as sprint.

if i knew the speed numbers i would throw them up.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Nanaa on January 14, 2011, 11:59:57 am
The buff could be liek the fire buffs damage but to siege units only.

Hey NightFox, you truly have great ideas which I'm really excited about. If you don't mind I'd suggest the water buff to be a bit different. Your current idea is a bit too lame, don't you think?

Continuing the anti-siege theme, the water buff could be used to shield any structure for 10-15 seconds against all damage. The buff should cost relatively a lot of energy, for example 200 points with the max pool always being 200. This way beasts could buy some time to deal with humans' synchronized siege rushes   :wink:


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: NightFox on January 14, 2011, 07:26:03 pm

Hey NightFox, you truly have great ideas which I'm really excited about. If you don't mind I'd suggest the water buff to be a bit different. Your current idea is a bit too lame, don't you think?

Continuing the anti-siege theme, the water buff could be used to shield any structure for 10-15 seconds against all damage. The buff should cost relatively a lot of energy, for example 200 points with the max pool always being 200. This way beasts could buy some time to deal with humans' synchronized siege rushes   :wink:

I do like that idea more. I welcome changing my ideas, i was just getting the ball rolling Others like yourself will perfect them more. I had written so much that day my ideas started to seem lamer and lamers as i wrote haha.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on March 21, 2011, 11:13:31 pm
The 1st product has arrived:
http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,13154.new.html#new


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Graal on March 23, 2011, 11:21:44 am
i think these mods all look great. and are done realy well,
just think that all modds should have a public server for them to be tested on, a passworded server like the pick your team and fight server. -sorry, been a long time since ive been on savage, i keep checking untill i can get my computer online again to game- so that the modders can test in peace or have everyone join in.

that way, it dosent take a savage fourms chat with all the negative fellows butting in to even get these things created. I dont mind savage changing from when i played it, itll still feel like an epic battle of skill and ballsy moves, just be a bit more deadly and interesting.

I do think that a special map should be made for the testing of new units, ie: rought hilly ground and flatlands, and get pitchet battles for the modders to observe how it plays out and how the units interact, that way, we wont need half garbled convos on balancing the new units as much as: shove it in the feild of battle and fight it out, go away, edit/change, come back, and fight again to see how it all stacks up.

Anyone whos played savage knows when they have a good all round unit -Stalker/savage- or a specalised one, -preditor has advantage in open areas, legionaire has advantage in enclosed straight areas, pred has advantage in enclosed chaotic bendy areas, ie: woodlands, these two pair up splendidly- as such, any new modded units should be put to the test in a map to find out if or what changes need to be made to them to fufill their niches to suite their terrain types and their use types.

-info from the battles will also go a long way to help mapmakers as they make pro beast or pro human areas of the map to elongate yet not stifle the games-


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: LaDy on April 11, 2011, 06:10:35 pm
Stopped reading the idiotic responses at page 1, so im sorry if it was already said .

Adding new tech to the game is a great idea, extreme mod didnt fail, EU's just never played it, we had tons of epic games on that mod.

I personally dont like some of your additions, i would rather see a tier 4 being made and perfected, but everthing new is welcome imo.

Btw, most ppl in the community contribute nothing but bitching about new things, if what you build is bugless and runnnig smoothly, dont ask anyone, just put it on xr, and it will be played and eventually ppl will get used to it.
Note that it needs to be a well worked addtion with experianced players ofc, and im sure most will gladly help.

P.S -
Not having the squads addition on groents server is just a stupid rent by people who's clue about the game lack vision.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: lololol on April 11, 2011, 07:10:38 pm
I personally like extreme mod so much  :mrgreen:  dunno about it balance, because server is empty.. what is pity:(
Every new ad-dons, mods, maps, every new possibilities is great!,of course, only some of them will be successful, but it's worth it :mrgreen:

just one important warning- every "new stuff" should be as options, with possibility to switch it OFF/"old version".
is unacceptable to force the user to use some "new stuff" instead "old stuff", user should always be able to choose between "old" and "new".

If this is the main requirement would satisfied, then the developers will receive only positive feedbacks!


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Hakugei on April 11, 2011, 07:24:39 pm
Server admins only need to enable/disable the objects in a server's objectlist.
It's really easy (and if the devs aren't morons, they'll have nicely sorted additions for a quick and simple overview :p).


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: lololol on April 11, 2011, 07:30:28 pm
I personally like extreme mod so much  :mrgreen:  dunno about it balance, because server is empty.. what is pity:(


The immature bitching, cheap shots and general lack of respect that is shown by a fair number of people in this community makes me sick sometimes. It's truly amazing to me what a little bit of anonymity does for giving "cowardly lions" a brave face. As my dearly departed grandma used to say to me, if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all. Censor your attitudes people before I start doing it for you.

Thanks.


Every new ad-dons, mods, maps, every new possibilities is great!,of course, only some of them will be successful, but it's worth it :mrgreen:

just one important warning- every "new stuff" should be as options, with possibility to switch it OFF/"old condition".
Is unacceptable to force the user to use some "new stuff" instead "old stuff", user should always be able to choose between "old" and "new".
It doesn't mean what player will switch-off  "new" because it  is "bad"... no!  just very often "old" means the  familiar, comfortable, retro, classic... etc.   don't forget what most savage players are old savage players.

If this is the main requirement would satisfied, then the developers will receive only positive feedbacks!


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Sonny on April 11, 2011, 10:53:12 pm
XR
Savage rebirth
Savage heroes
Extreme
World of Savage



Protip:

finish 1 thing, then start on the next


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Groentjuh on April 13, 2011, 11:10:14 am
XR <- Being worked on.
Savage rebirth <- Being worked on but by mainly other people.
Savage heroes <- On hold
Extreme <- What needs changing about that? Isn't it done?!
World of Savage <- stayed with concepts and maybe some concept art.



Protip:

finish 1 thing, then start on the next


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on April 13, 2011, 12:08:10 pm
All that stuff Tjens and Groen posted, except SH, has nothing to do with me :). I've finished my tasks for XR and with the Mech done, i've started working on the Glider which is prolly gonna be done this week. After i've added the 100% complete new ranged siege + melee units, i will give this a rest and go back to SH.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Rigoletto on April 13, 2011, 04:39:51 pm
Just an idea that didnt need a lot of work, how about some new items to research with a restriction.
Com can only research 1 item out of 3 for example.

Some like this:

- mana stone with more mana
- frenzy stone with more stamina
- nearly invisible fire wards (needs sensor to see them)

- bigger ammo pack
- bigger medic pack
- sensor with double range, or sensor that can only spotted with blood sense


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Oberlus on December 21, 2011, 03:51:24 pm
There is a small crowd of people who regularly plays Samurai Wars and Extreme.
Just for the sake of those people, it was worth spending time on the mods.
Hey! Thank you very much for the mods!
I always join Samurai server if there is anyone there (up to now, I've been there five or six times). But I usually find players that don't like to lose or something, since I have finished only one game, the rest of the time I end up alone.
And I have just tried Extreme mod (it seems nice! I bet it improves re-playability), I was alone and two other players came in and soon they begun kickvoting each other (it was warmup!).

BTW, when do people play Samurai? I'd like to coincide with some non-fool players.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Oberlus on December 21, 2011, 03:54:44 pm
I don't "think" it's dying. It's a fact that it is.
One year later, I don't smell anything rotting, so far.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Hakugei on December 21, 2011, 05:16:43 pm
Savage is undead.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Shagroth on December 21, 2011, 05:42:46 pm
savage has been dying for 6 years or something like that, I think we can come to the conclusion it is undead - like haku pointed out


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 21, 2011, 06:01:39 pm
1st Public announcement of a future project:

Adding the (yet unfinished) Undead race from TombStone to Savage as a playable 3rd race.

Weird coincidence, but fitting.


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Robin5hood on December 21, 2011, 09:10:41 pm
meabt fix Voip chat :roll: :mrgreen:
and get beast tutorial :x


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 21, 2011, 09:51:12 pm
I can't do either, i can animate things :).


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Aneurysm on December 22, 2011, 04:18:41 am
I can't do either, i can animate things :).

Portal, K go !

Doo eet!! :P


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Oberlus on December 22, 2011, 05:06:39 pm
Adding the (yet unfinished) Undead race from TombStone to Savage as a playable 3rd race.
I was thinking of that (and I'm not the first to think it or tell it, for sure): more races.

I agree that the undead race fits with the beasts and humans, and it would bring more sense to the 3 teams' games.

Another race could be... aliens?
Newerth is invaded by a high technology race not too fitted to live on it (but, poor guys, their home planet is over).
As space travel is not a walkover, they could not bring with them strong weapons, but knwoledge is rather light to transport.
So they would have strong weapons and armors but also big disadvantages in building (something like having to terraform the place first, some later tech or unit could accelerate this) and moving (not being able to be too far from their buildings because of live support system, items mittigate this). This way it would be an even more defensive race than human, with the possibly of making them the more ranged oriented race, or the less (why not? they are aliens, don't try to understand). Do you think this would bring alot of strategy diversity and replayability?

Too many unfinished mods to worry now about a new race anyway, so no hurry to think of the possible three tech lines and all the details.


Changing matter, has anybody thought of real flying units? Airplane/bird like (constantly propulsed), and/or zeppelin-like (can be static). Would be tier 3 or 4. Plenty of more strat diversity and playability (and a lot of programming and testing :cry:). This is the only mention I found (possibly) about a flying system in Savage:
may not use fly due to being broken


Changing matter again, reading the descriptions of the mech it makes me think of the "killa kan" of the Orcs in Dawn of War II.
PS; Dakka dakka dakka HAHAHA


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Renegade on December 22, 2011, 06:02:21 pm
flying or swimming units i'm up with both!!!!!

flying like really high and low flying! not like glider :p


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: happy on December 23, 2011, 04:34:37 pm
Another race could be... aliens?

(http://www.abload.de/img/12513648bcjbp.jpg)


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Mohican on December 23, 2011, 05:17:43 pm
The TS undead are easy(ish) to add, cause the models already exist.
Not so for Aliens...

Personally, I would like to see the female version of the legion come to newerth...!


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Nightmare on December 25, 2011, 04:42:55 pm
Because i don't think the current game needs any tweaking

wat


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: DarkStar on December 25, 2011, 05:33:48 pm
Fix the current game before thinking of a new race please ^^


Title: Re: New tech line for Savage XR
Post by: Daemon on December 25, 2011, 07:05:51 pm
Because i don't think the current game needs any tweaking

+1

And while i believe that strongly, i still encourage debates and finding solutions involving many, many more people than a single mind devising changes. Harder to go wrong with a group effort. That's why we got the Re-balancing Suggestions forum, and that's why suggestions up to #18 and the discussions around them have been taken under careful consideration by a group of Newerth admins. The result is positive, i doubt there's anyone denying that.

Spoiler (Mouse-Over to read)
* Healing tech research costs decreased: buildings, units, abilities, items) cost reduced by 50%.
* Monastery/Sanctuary now do not require Arsenal to be built in order to unlock them.
* Rupture improved: 50% increase in ammo, damage rounded to 90 (compared to tempest's 170), +10% larger splash damage area, 10% bonus damage to all enemies in the area it hits, for each enemy it touches and up to 3 enemies per shot (1=100%, 2=120%, 3=130%).
* Mana Crystal, while still slowly recharging mana when bought, became a consumable. It can be thrown like disruptors, it breaks on impact and produces 3 pickable mana crystal goodies.
* Sensors are now stackable, max 2, single slot. Total team sensors: 16.
* Ammo boxes now refill ammo over the 50% limit, if player has ammo pack.
* Sprinting costs 20% less stamina, for both races.
* Sixth Sense now highlights the enemies close by that are less than 1 melee hit away from death.

If i were to put my efforts into anything like transplanting the Undead race to Savage it's ONLY going to result in a mod, you won't see it forced into mainstream Savage. People may /callvote mod TombStone (or w/e the name will be) when they wanna play it.

I strongly believe a 3-race game is a very, very successful formula. Just look at Starcraft. But in all honesty, if it's ever going to happen, it's most likely not gonna for the next year or so. Hell, if we all die come December 2012, it never will. Happy now?