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Newerth Hosted Competitions => 2010 (Locked) => Topic started by: Trigardon on June 20, 2010, 09:22:48 pm



Title: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Trigardon on June 20, 2010, 09:22:48 pm
Game between DeMo and ExD.

First game ExD (Humans) won with a foward garrison against DeMo (Beasts)
Second game the game timer ran about the 45 minutes. The rules say that games stop at the 45th minute (http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,10607.msg134992.html#msg134992)
(Don't even try to edit the rules, I got a .html file + a screenshot of them how they were TODAY when our match started)

DeMo were being cowards and couldn't loose against ExD due their whoring demorunning and our defense skills.

Spearwolf was there (as a request from WarDragon who did not want to shoutcast alone) and decided IN THE MIDST OF A MATCH that the game time is set to 1 hour.

What the fuck is wrong here? Why is the Admin biased towards one of the best Clans in Savage?


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Groentjuh on June 20, 2010, 09:56:17 pm
Quote
<Trigardon> soon is draw no?
<Spearwolf> you have an hour, unless both teams agree to a draw.
<Spearwolf> before hand.
<Trigardon> nice nice
Quote
Length : Each game lasts for a maximum of 45 minutes. If neither team has achieved victory when the time runs out, the game is drawed. (Except in tiebreakers)

Wait a minute? WHAT?

Quote
Disclaimer : These rules are NOT set in stone. They are subject to change at any given time, so please keep yourselves updated before playing matches.
Page shows 45 minutes before and after the match, so why could the match take 1 hour.

Serverlogs show the following:
779 heartbeats were sent between 13:40 and 20:39.
69 heartbeats were sent during round 1
96 heartbeats were sent during round 2
Do your math.....


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: WinterFresh on June 20, 2010, 10:16:10 pm
Demos and screens plx!!!!!!!


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Trigardon on June 20, 2010, 10:23:23 pm
Demos and screens plx!!!!!!!

Screens are available, but needs to be sorted out.
What should demos prove? Groentjuh provided serverlogs... just do the maths? Will provide mine tho if necessary (once I can locate them)


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: DarknesS on June 20, 2010, 10:34:40 pm
Well this dispute is actually pretty easy to solve (note: I have no authority in this, just a suggestion).

- Current ruleset states a game lasts 45 minutes (-> default)
- Clan sovereignity rule implies that you might define a new time limit if boths clan agree on it.

So if no one can prove that clan sovereignity rules were invoked, or that both clans were notified in a timely manner (which is NOT during the game) then the default rule should be used.

In other words:
The burden of proof in this case should belong to those that claim that the game should've lasted more than 45 minutes. Thus Trigardon shouldn't be required to provide a demo which proofs anything.

(I'd personally prefer to see Trigardon lose, though  :evil:, also I still can't believe demo lost 1 round)


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Moxy on June 20, 2010, 10:41:07 pm
the league admin stated as groent as quoted 1 hour. demo is not going to lose this cw because EXd failed. as u can see. trig replied. which meant EXD new the game last 1 hour. all EXD is doing to trying to trick demo out of a hard earned draw.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Trigardon on June 20, 2010, 10:46:29 pm
the league admin stated as groent as quoted 1 hour. demo is not going to lose this cw because EXd failed. as u can see. trig replied. which meant EXD new the game last 1 hour. all EXD is doing to trying to trick demo out of a hard earned draw.

I have no leading position which means I don't count. Also my answer did not say anything about agree-ing or disagree-ing..


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Moxy on June 20, 2010, 10:49:40 pm
no but you acknowledge the fact that he said that. which mean u knew, which means EXD knew. as EXD didnt question that or say he was wrong. i dont see how u can complain. EXD knew, cause u replied K.


Title: Demo please
Post by: BEARD! on June 20, 2010, 10:51:03 pm
I second the call for a demo(s). Let the evidence speak for itself, in full view of everyone.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Trigardon on June 20, 2010, 10:57:02 pm
no but you acknowledge the fact that he said that. which mean u knew, which means EXD knew. as EXD didnt question that or say he was wrong. i dont see how u can complain. EXD knew, cause u replied K.

He said that, but that doesn't makes me or my clan knowing it. Fact is: Rules say otherwise and I actually demand that the rules gets enforced and not that an shoutcasting admin changing them in the midst of a game.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Groentjuh on June 20, 2010, 11:07:02 pm
So if no one can prove that clan sovereignity rules were invoked, or that both clans were notified in a timely manner (which is NOT during the game) then the default rule should be used.
the league admin stated as groent as quoted 1 hour. demo is not going to lose this cw because EXd failed. as u can see. trig replied. which meant EXD new the game last 1 hour. all EXD is doing to trying to trick demo out of a hard earned draw.
That quote was during the game, so it isn't the proof daemon means in this case. If such an agreement exists, it wasn't made in public chat just before the match like was done for the shoutcaster(s), before the game!


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Moxy on June 20, 2010, 11:11:49 pm
he's not a "shoutcasting admin" i dont see how u keep brining this argument up.

hes the league admin, he makles the rules. he's made this decision. this aint just any old shoutcaster, this is the league admin, the one person who thought up this league. and made the rules to it. he said in the first game that it was one hour. if it was the first game and your tatic for the first game was a tatic based on 45 minutes i would properly understand,

however this was the second game. after he told us it was 1 hour afterwhish u replied which means EXD knew it was one hour. i do not see how u guys can argue this result.

DeMo aint going to reply to this conversaion anymore. in game or on these forums. If spear decides a remake is in order then we will have to respect the league admins decision. but as demo stand, we are not offering a rematch, and until spear instructs us otherwise. demo stance is that the game was 1-1.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Shagroth on June 20, 2010, 11:12:28 pm
here i thought the pug cup was for fun, didnt know i was that wrong.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Moxy on June 20, 2010, 11:15:14 pm
hey so did we, its exd here thats making all the fuss.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Daemon on June 20, 2010, 11:27:18 pm
Yeah, well you never make a fuss when the outcome of a dubious decision favors you. Not the 1st time.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: SpearWolf on June 21, 2010, 12:22:44 am
Demos: http://www.mediafire.com/?nmmd4wmbzk3

I'm amazed by the childish behavior being shown to me by a large amount of the community, after taking my free time to organize this bloody tournament.. I mess up once, everyone throws a fit. If i had given ExD the win, DeMo wouldn't of been a bunch of whiny bitches. For the twentieth time, yes, i did mess up. But the evidence is clear, you knew about this. It takes a big man to admit his mistakes. Am I really the only person here who has ever messed up?

One more thing to note, How many times has society failed due to loopholes that are "written down"? Child Rapists, Murderers, etc.. they all get out of jail time for loopholes in the rules. Here, it's about the principle of the thing. You knew about it, and just because it's written in a post i made that i forgot to correct, doesn't mean you deserve the win. And besides, who wants to win under loopholes? We lasted 45 minutes, therefor we deserve a win! What fun is there in that? This game isn't going anywhere, and you are killing the fun over stupidity, and spamming the forums with immature accusations of "Biased Admin". Obviously, I organized this for the wrong reason. Where is everyone's morals nowadays? Is it so easy to hide behind a screen name and accuse and scream and whine when you don't get your way?

Whatever. You be the judges. If you really feel, that i am so "biased" i'll stop being the official admin on the spot and you can ever forget i started this up.

Demos posted, since noone else came forward.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: XabHippA on June 21, 2010, 12:41:40 am
Wow didn't see a seperate topic was opened for this issue. Sorry Mox for posting this :P. I don't think this will do any harm though.

While some of you may have been arguing for some time after the match, I really enjoyed the last 30 minutes of Ivory Coast against Brazil and all the analytics talks around today's matches and football-drama like the French players who refused to train (ZOMG, REAL drama.)

Copied and pasted from the other topic:

I might be wrong, but I remember it like this.
In a match with pretty much no global chat (weird for a clanmatch, isn't it?), somebody asks about 15 minutes after the start of the first game (DeMo beasts, ExD humans): Game takes 45 minutes or hour?.
Immediate response from Spear (teh admin) and WD (the other shoutcaster): Game lasts one hour. Someone asks, are you sure it's isn't 45 minutes? Response: 1 hour. Both teams: okay. (Or atleast noone complained then). That first round was won by
Spoiler (Mouse-Over to read)
ExD
btw.
The problem arose at the second game, where
Spoiler (Mouse-Over to read)
we
won after around 50 minutes or so.

To me it seems rather logical if the first round is played one hour, the second one is too. Ah well, no need to argue about it IMO, for those of you interesting in some e-drama: just watch the shoutcast!

Also, both games were nice, GGs ExD afro Looking forward to playing you again!



PS Sorry for the lame behe-spawn, I was a bit frustrated about the.... WD already mentioned it.... miscommunication on our side and my personal failure Tongue.
PPS next time no savage during a good match like Brazil - Ivory Coast plz.
PPPS Too bad Ivory Coast got beaten Sad


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: biggeruniverse on June 21, 2010, 01:14:31 am
Spear, if you said it's 45 minutes in the official rules that everyone can see, then giving a different time in the middle of a match and saying you "forgot to update the official rules" doesn't hold up very well. The written document is what people implicitly agreed to when they signed up, and even if you change the rules (as you reserve the right to do), you have to update the rules that everyone can read.

On the other hand, if both teams agreed implicitly in the match to extend the match, then that match lasts for the amount of time agreed to. However, the second match doesn't seem to have had the same implicit agreement, as the question was never asked nor a change in match length noted.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: SpearWolf on June 21, 2010, 01:22:36 am
Spear, if you said it's 45 minutes in the official rules that everyone can see, then giving a different time in the middle of a match and saying you "forgot to update the official rules" doesn't hold up very well. The written document is what people implicitly agreed to when they signed up, and even if you change the rules (as you reserve the right to do), you have to update the rules that everyone can read.

On the other hand, if both teams agreed implicitly in the match to extend the match, then that match lasts for the amount of time agreed to. However, the second match doesn't seem to have had the same implicit agreement, as the question was never asked nor a change in match length noted.

Okay, obviously I don't know what I'm talking about.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Ophelia on June 21, 2010, 01:49:00 am
Okay, obviously I don't know what I'm talking about. I quit.

Stop bull-shittin'

This whole thing has done a LOT of good - mistake, or technically, either way, find a resolution in it, and every party involved can move on - reguardless if they get over it, or not.

Don't just puss out and be like "i quit"

You have put a lot of time and effort into it.

Everyone has put effort into either contacting old players, forming clans, getting everyone together for a common interest you took the wheel on.

Don't just shut down over this. That would be some stupid shit Spear.



Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: SpearWolf on June 21, 2010, 02:19:07 am
  • Rematch on a Different map
  • Rematch on the Same map
  • One team forfeits, it's double elimination anyway
  • Or, You can trust me and go by what i say instead of whining about it
Those are your choices, DeMo and ExD.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: TNaismith on June 21, 2010, 05:09:41 am
Everyone has put effort into either contacting old players, forming clans, getting everyone together for a common interest you took the wheel on.

I don't post often in these topics, but wanted to say this is true Spear.  This event has done some amazing things in raising activity in the community for the time being, and getting people together, at the very least.  Whatever happened is up to you guys to resolve, but don't break up this event just because of this one-time thing.  Not worth it.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Aneurysm on June 21, 2010, 06:58:34 am
Everyone has put effort into either contacting old players, forming clans, getting everyone together for a common interest you took the wheel on.

I don't post often in these topics, but wanted to say this is true Spear.  This event has done some amazing things in raising activity in the community for the time being, and getting people together, at the very least.  Whatever happened is up to you guys to resolve, but don't break up this event just because of this one-time thing.  Not worth it.

Agreed,

I can't help but feel that all parties involved are forgetting that this is a "friendly" competition. The lack of sportsmanship over this whole issue is a sad indictment that risks marring the whole event. Perhaps it's time for some mature diplomacy?


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Daemon on June 21, 2010, 08:17:24 am
THIS IS WHAT NEWERTH LEAGUES NEED:

===== more than 1 league admin =====

This way, ugly situations can be sorted out with votes. No single admin can make rulings on the fly.

Also, don't you think changing the game time from 45mins to 1h, is a pretty big change? I don't think i would have even signed up for this, the 45 mins rule is not there by accident, long draw are teh shit. This was a big change, was there any reason for it?


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: raju on June 21, 2010, 09:10:43 am
hey folks.

Yesterday our clan was really pissed may you can understand us. ( new clan win against the strongest clan after evo in the newerth savage gistory)

I didnt read the exd forum yet. Me as the leader from the clan say, we wont play the human match again because it was a win. (in 45 min.)

We can play the beast match again. 1hour match ok. but when we draw it exd won and when demo win the human part, it is a draw. and we will play a tiebreacker.

The whole savage community know that we won against demo and now all see that demo cant lose in a normal way. they need a drama to save their history and wanna be the best.

I liked to play against demo and it was a nie martch

p.s. i dont wanna make a drama and would be happy if we are still online friends. i like the demo clan. (I understand demos but understand the demo clan our clan?)

i dont wanna hear the fucking arguments anymore. (Moxy i asked in the secound game how long the match takes 45 mins. and spear and wardragon answered me no 1 hour. during the secound game you will see it in the demop. and i said lol. aftrer that i watched at newerth and saw that the match only takes 45 mins.)

furthermore we build a worker fron garr at the end of the first match because i though that the game takes only 45 mins. and we won. btw i wanted to draw this after 45 mins because a draw against demo is nice for our clan.



Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Hakugei on June 21, 2010, 09:18:32 am
So the rules state 45 minutes a draw.
And the rules state that clans can decide to change it.

This whole discussion is simple -> DeMo show evidence that ExD agreed to play 1 hour.
Spearwolf already said it was his MISTAKE and thus never intended.

Anything else is indeed "biased". This is not the first time DeMo plays dirty.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Takz on June 21, 2010, 10:39:41 am
Yes, Spearwolf fucked up with the time. But exd should have disputed it in-game instead of just saying "lol" or "ok". not coming here to the forums to complain about it afterwards.

I fucking hate it how everyone is out to get DeMo and the so called "top" clans instead of just playing the game like it was meant to, the game goes on until either the lair or sh is destroyed or a team concedes, there were no draws before SEP. Same thing constantly happens with EvO, accusing them of using "hacks" to win their games. There was that one thread calling them out openly but otherwise it's all behind their backs and it disgusts me. No sportsmanship anymore, before you'd get everyone on each team say gl and hf and call gg after a game is over regardless of winning or losing. Nowadays people gloat when winning, it's patethic. Should have quit this game after the EULs, community and clans went downhill after that.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Moxy on June 21, 2010, 11:07:29 am
i know i said i wouldnt post again but i just had to reply to him

Quote
I didnt read the exd forum yet. Me as the leader from the clan say, we wont play the human match again because it was a win. (in 45 min.)


We wouldn’t ask you too, we lost fair and square.

Quote
We can play the beast match again. 1hour match ok. but when we draw it exd won and when demo win the human part, it is a draw. and we will play a tiebreacker.


like i said in my previous post as far as demo is concerned its a draw, so i guess we should go straight to the tie breaker. Until spear tells us otherwise that’s our stance.

Quote
The whole savage community know that we won against demo and now all see that demo cant lose in a normal way. they need a drama to save their history and wanna be the best.

Really? Really? come on, yes we wanna be the best, do we want to cheat our way there? fuck no! demo has always tried to play as far as possible in all matches they have played. we don’t care whether we win or lose. I mean of course demo is a competitive clan, and we do want to win. but in the end its meant to be fun.

Having been told in the first game that the round lasts one hour and then in the second game EXD try and cheat us out of a hard earned draw, cause believe me, DeMo knows that was a well hard thought battle and we could of lost, is feeling like a 2 month old clan trying to cheat there way to a win over one of the big boys to try and improve their e-penis. Cause believe me, this is exactly how demo see it. You trying to cheat us out of a hard earned draw.

Quote
p.s. i dont wanna make a drama and would be happy if we are still online friends. i like the demo clan. (I understand demos but understand the demo clan our clan?)
I can see somewhat ur clans position in this. Thinking it was 45 minutes and finding out it was 1 hour instead. It must be hard on the clan. However demo do not wish to be punished for a mistake your clan made.

Quote
i dont wanna hear the fucking arguments anymore. (Moxy i asked in the secound game how long the match takes 45 mins. and spear and wardragon answered me no 1 hour.

furthermore we build a worker fron garr at the end of the first match because i though that the game takes only 45 mins. and we won. btw i wanted to draw this after 45 mins because a draw against demo is nice for our clan.


WAIT!! What? So you type hear that you admit that exd knew it was 1 hour long, and now are trying to get a win out of demo? only after 45 mins. I’ll re quote what you said here.
Quote
(Moxy i asked in the secound game how long the match takes 45 mins. and spear and wardragon answered me no 1 hour.

So exd knew it was 1 hour. Where the fuck do you guys get off then trying to cheat us out of a hard earned draw? Sry but I just lost all respect I had for your clan. This was a draw, no rematch of the second game. Fuck off you trying to cheat!


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: -Mein- on June 21, 2010, 11:15:54 am
So the rules state 45 minutes a draw.
And the rules state that clans can decide to change it.

This whole discussion is simple -> DeMo show evidence that ExD agreed to play 1 hour.
Spearwolf already said it was his MISTAKE and thus never intended.

Anything else is indeed "biased". This is not the first time DeMo plays dirty.

sorry to disagree, we never agreed.

As we never asked for a change of time, nor did Demo the game lasts for 45 mins each round.

Also Spear was there as shoutcaster so his function is to shoutcast the match, not change the rules.

Everythign else is biased waht ever that word means


OH WAIT I FORGOT 1 POINT
Moxy just to point out how childish you are. Folks as you all know ExD is useing a demo icon. They told us it is our leaders didn't knew, so we asked for persmission to use it.
Now after that Drama moxy is a little kid and says he will kick us on the server if we keep useing that icon. Even tho he gave us permission to use it.



Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Moxy on June 21, 2010, 11:47:54 am
on the update fromn meins post. i've talked to groent and he's told me not to kick. so u guys are safe. dosent remove the fact that ur using a demo icon without our permission.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: DarknesS on June 21, 2010, 11:50:15 am
So if I understand it correctly spearwolf said game would last 1 hour during 1 st match and trigardon answered: "nice nice". Demo of course had all reasons to believe that the 2nd round would also last 1 hour, don't see how they try to cheat.

Why did no one of exd raise any objections at that point? I'm assuming exd was winning at that point and hence trigardon replied "nice nice" (didn't have time to watch demo yet, so maybe I'm wrong). Don't see how spearwolf was biased towards demo. He just fucked up once.

I have no leading position which means I don't count. Also my answer did not say anything about agree-ing or disagree-ing..
Don't speak for your clan if you don't want to take responsibility. Also no one objected your notions which is pretty much a declaration of consent.


-- End of spam --


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Shagroth on June 21, 2010, 11:54:13 am
I fucking hate it how everyone is out to get DeMo and the so called "top" clans instead of just playing the game like it was meant to, the game goes on until either the lair or sh is destroyed or a team concedes, there were no draws before SEP. Same thing constantly happens with EvO, accusing them of using "hacks" to win their games. There was that one thread calling them out openly but otherwise it's all behind their backs and it disgusts me. No sportsmanship anymore, before you'd get everyone on each team say gl and hf and call gg after a game is over regardless of winning or losing. Nowadays people gloat when winning, it's patethic. Should have quit this game after the EULs, community and clans went downhill after that.

this has been a problem for a very long time, too many lacking sportmanship in competitions in savage.

please read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmanship and try to have fun.
Quote
"A competitor who exhibits poor sportsmanship after losing a game or contest is often called a "sore loser" (those who show poor sportsmanship after winning are typically called "bad winners"). Behavior includes blaming others, not taking responsibility for personal actions, reacting immaturely or improperly, making excuses for their loss, referring to unfavorable conditions or other petty issues"


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: raju on June 21, 2010, 11:59:47 am
close this here and moxy msg me.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: bot on June 21, 2010, 12:02:40 pm
I fucking hate it how everyone is out to get DeMo and the so called "top" clans instead of just playing the game like it was meant to, the game goes on until either the lair or sh is destroyed or a team concedes, there were no draws before SEP. Same thing constantly happens with EvO, accusing them of using "hacks" to win their games. There was that one thread calling them out openly but otherwise it's all behind their backs and it disgusts me. No sportsmanship anymore, before you'd get everyone on each team say gl and hf and call gg after a game is over regardless of winning or losing. Nowadays people gloat when winning, it's patethic. Should have quit this game after the EULs, community and clans went downhill after that.

this has been a problem for a very long time, too many lacking sportmanship in competitions in savage.

please read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmanship and try to have fun.
Quote
"A competitor who exhibits poor sportsmanship after losing a game or contest is often called a "sore loser" (those who show poor sportsmanship after winning are typically called "bad winners"). Behavior includes blaming others, not taking responsibility for personal actions, reacting immaturely or improperly, making excuses for their loss, referring to unfavorable conditions or other petty issues"


Good posts. +1


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: XabHippA on June 21, 2010, 12:11:28 pm
For those of you who weren't there, just watch the demo's Spearwolf uploaded before you judge on the matter.


@Darkness. No, at that point the game was in balance, it could go either way.


@Hakugei. When has DeMo ever played dirty? One of the reasons I joined DeMo and stay in DeMo is because of our great attitude and sportsmanship (IMO ofcourse :D, yes I may be a bit biased but I really mean this!). For example, last game against TH' a few TH' members were struggling with the connection and kept reconnecting. This occured more than 5 minutes ingame when we were really on the winning hand. Yet we offered to replay the whole game.
There is no need for us to bring any proof, because Spearwolf, the PUG-admin, was there. Just watch his demo's.

We didn't have the time to discuss what we would like to do next, so I'll just speak for myself now. As said I really enjoyed the two matches, even though the result
Spoiler (Mouse-Over to read)
DRAW
isn't what I hoped for. I would really like to play you guys again, whether it be on the same map or on a different one.

<3 Xab


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Aneurysm on June 21, 2010, 12:25:38 pm
close this here and moxy msg me.

Done


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Daemon on June 21, 2010, 12:43:54 pm
@Hakugei. When has DeMo ever played dirty? One of the reasons I joined DeMo and stay in DeMo is because of our great attitude and sportsmanship

PM me if you're interested in the details of the last eoN vs DeMo NSL3 match.

After drawing the 1st round, when one of our players timed out in the 2nd, Moxy did not allow any DeMo members to D/C according to the fair play rule Hakugei and Scrapo previously agreed upon, that whenever one team loses a player, in order to balance the game, the other one would send one off. In the end, Moxy offered a rematch, but we've lost the momentum we had that round, the upper hand we had on DeMo.

This looks a lot like this incident. Everyone knows DeMo is hard to beat once, but prolly impossible twice. So who's actually benefiting from playing dirty WHEN IT COUNTS.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Moxy on June 21, 2010, 02:10:23 pm
zzz ur still on about  that.

i told u, i was not aware of scrapos agreement to that.

as soon as i found out i offered i rematch, you turned down the rematch. it was a communication problem in demo. which we apologised for and tried to rectify. sry if u didnt accept our apology and our offer of a rematch.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Daemon on June 21, 2010, 03:28:24 pm
Zzzzz what can you do with these pesky little idiots, not going with their rights being trashed and all that crap... It was ancient history, until you did it again. So now it doesn't look like an accident anymore. It's statistics.


Title: Re: PUG-Cup Admin is biased.
Post by: Groentjuh on June 21, 2010, 03:50:21 pm
Little note:
THIS TOPIC IS LOCKED!