Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 19, 2018, 09:29:55 am

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Savage: XR is a new patch for Savage, created by the Newerth.com staff. The XR1.1 Client is out now! Download it now!
189082 Posts in 10951 Topics by 18014 Members
Latest Member: Edson Maes
* Home Forum Wiki Help Search Login Register
+  Newerth Forums
|-+  Savage XR
| |-+  General Savage XR Discussion
| | |-+  Balancing the Numbers
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Balancing the Numbers  (Read 5223 times)
pingu
League Admin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 523


View Profile
« on: April 24, 2008, 06:39:37 pm »

This is all in my opinion. We've been talking about balancing for a bit now but it seems like most of the things suggested are just too radical and could potentially make Savage less enjoyable. So, how about we start smaller and play with the internal numbers instead of something as large as changing the tech tree? The point of this thread is to identify what aspects of a unit and weapon need to be tuned down or up in order to make it more balanced. You will undoubtedly look down and see your favorite weapon having more - than +, and there is good reason for that. At least in terms of weapons, there are some that are overused because they are overpowered and the point of balancing is to make your favorite weapon less formidable and make the lesser-used weapons more attractive.

Now, the worst thing we can possibly do when balancing is go too far overboard. If any of these changes are to be implemented, they will be gradually in very minor changes until it feels like we've got a much better game going on. If you disagree with anything I've posted, feel free to say so and I might even change what I have written down here. Or, if you're an overachiever, make your own table!

UnitHPDamageRate of fire
Nomad
Savage
Legionnaire
Chaplain
Ballista
+
-
Catapult
Scavenger
Stalker
Predator
Shaman
Summoner
-
+
Behemoth
+
-

WeaponCostDamageAmmoRateSplash
Hunting Bow
-
Crossbow
Marksman Bow
-
Scattergun
Repeater
Coil Rifle
Discharger
Flux Gun
-
Pulse Cannon
Incinerator
+
Mortar
+
Launcher
+
-
+
Venomous
Rabid
Carnivorous
Chaos bolt
+
Surge
Rupture
Frost bolts
Tempest
-
Lightning
-
Ember-
Blaze
-
+
Fireball
+

I found that items are pretty well balanced already and even if there needed to be some tweaks, you can't exactly do it in a table format. Plus I'm tired.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2008, 06:03:45 am by pingu » Logged
Notausgang
Map Admin
Super Hero Member
******
Posts: 1947


Gnagsuaton


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 06:42:46 pm »

omg.
Logged
Enliven
Admin demoralizer
Super Hero Member
******
Posts: 1501



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 06:44:14 pm »

no.
Logged


Trigardon
Forum Administrator
Legendary Member
****
Posts: 4803


Demonic Monster


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2008, 06:47:30 pm »

omg.

AND

no.
Logged

2pizza
Guest
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 06:55:48 pm »

Logged
pingu
League Admin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 523


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2008, 06:59:09 pm »

Ha, you guys suck.

I guess I didn't state how completely minor this would be. It won't be even close to balanced, but it will be closer than before. :X
Logged
Cross
Savage
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 489



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2008, 09:23:02 pm »

I agree with that table. Except for flux and serge, since flux is getting fixed now anyways, making it give less damage also will be to much of a nerf, while making the already better serge even stronger. Serge really has no problems taking out humans as it is now, I find myself falling to it quiet often, especially since it can't be blocked. Which on a side not, since flux is not able to stop beast right button move (leap) perhaps serge should not interrupt the humans right button move (block), and if this was the case then increasing the ammo wouldn't be a problem.

Only thing throwing me off a bit is why lower the ammo for hunting bow? It's not like its good now.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 09:27:49 pm by CrossLight » Logged

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God." Ephesians 2:8
Nymph
Viking.
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 831


Cheese.


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2008, 09:53:14 pm »

Incinerator is a mass murdering weapon already wtf Tongue
Logged

Ulquiorra
Newerth Donator
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 463



View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2008, 11:40:37 pm »

isnt fireball insta kill allready on low levels like lighning and rabid past level 4? more damage to that lol would be murderf XD
Logged

MyKill
ReS
Newbie
*
Posts: 19


Fear Denies Faith


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2008, 03:00:20 am »

wtf is with all this retarded talk about changing things, the game is fine as it is and has been going for years like this. Everything has a counter, so just get over it and play!
Logged

Enliven
Admin demoralizer
Super Hero Member
******
Posts: 1501



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2008, 03:03:49 am »

The game is fine.
The game balance is not fine.
Balance needs changing.

However, I don't like the approach proposed by pingu here, it doesn't seem right/effective for me.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 03:20:46 am by Enliven » Logged


pingu
League Admin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 523


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2008, 06:06:34 am »

I agree with that table. Except for flux and serge, since flux is getting fixed now anyways, making it give less damage also will be to much of a nerf, while making the already better serge even stronger. Serge really has no problems taking out humans as it is now, I find myself falling to it quiet often, especially since it can't be blocked. Which on a side not, since flux is not able to stop beast right button move (leap) perhaps serge should not interrupt the humans right button move (block), and if this was the case then increasing the ammo wouldn't be a problem.
This is assuming that XR is in it's current state and flux hasn't been fixed yet. You're right about surge being too strong already, edited the table.

Only thing throwing me off a bit is why lower the ammo for hunting bow? It's not like its good now.
Very early in the game is human favored thanks to the bow. I realized just how many arrows humans actually get (and all for free) and how you hardly ever seem to run out despite standing still for a minute in warmup and shooting them (which I do consistently because I'm bored). Imo, it's not a very important balance, but one none the less.

isnt fireball insta kill allready on low levels like lighning and rabid past level 4? more damage to that lol would be murderf XD
You're right, removed the extra damage to fireball.

The game is fine.
The game balance is not fine.
Balance needs changing.

However, I don't like the approach proposed by pingu here, it doesn't seem right/effective for me.
And nor do I think it's right or effective. However, it's a moderate proposal to at least fix the weapons and some of the siege imbalances. Many Savage players are veterans who oppose drastic change, and you're not going to get anything done with radicalism unless you can show that balancing at least one aspect of the game with minor changes can be a good thing.

wtf is with all this retarded talk about changing things, the game is fine as it is and has been going for years like this. Everything has a counter, so just get over it and play!
Look, I think you fail to see the point. You're right about the game being "fine", but just because counters exist doesn't mean they work properly. In the current state of Savage, it seems that the only way you can ever get any good is by sticking to a few weapons and tactics and perfecting them as much as possible. Humans use coil or flux and beasts use rabid or tempest. Theoretically, everything has a counter, but in reality there are weapons much better than others that are overused and completely throw the balance off. All we want to do is make this counter system much more capable by offering competent alternatives so that competent individuals can use them and their countering traits to best win the game. You say that Savage has been going for years like this, and of course I agree. However, just because something exists does not mean it is a shining example of success. Bush has been in office for almost eight years now and you'll be hardpressed to find a person who will claim that is reason to think he must be a great president. Savage is "fine" the way it is, but even just these minor changes can make the world of difference when it comes to enjoying the game.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 06:18:15 am by pingu » Logged
CJ
Junglist
Newerth Donator
Newbie
****
Posts: 30



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2008, 08:11:55 am »

You can't theoretically decide what change will be good, every combination needs testing in at least 10 full-scale games. Game studios use testing teams for that. How you'll do that with Newerth community?

What to change won't be long discussion if you can just test each arguable thing.
Logged
Mr_Matt
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 612



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2008, 08:21:07 am »

dont lower cost of lightning!  Cheesy
Logged
Vinther
I got a Medal!
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 558



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2008, 09:00:12 am »

It's all about the server size and spawning times. I don't know why you guys don't understand that
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.039 seconds with 19 queries.