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Poll
Question: What do you think??  (Voting closed: December 31, 2017, 09:40:53 am)
Good idea - 8 (88.9%)
Bad idea - 1 (11.1%)
I don't care - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 9

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Author Topic: old maps need remade  (Read 299 times)
kLLik
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« on: December 24, 2017, 09:40:53 am »

Hi, for example i have few screenshots with avenue_sep, is the same map with few changes.

You can see few screenshots with old and new.

Poll run for 7 days.


* shot00002.png (2984.71 KB, 1920x1080 - viewed 37 times.)

* shot00006.png (2888.24 KB, 1920x1080 - viewed 34 times.)

* shot00001.png (2421.44 KB, 1920x1080 - viewed 25 times.)

* shot00005.png (2428.63 KB, 1920x1080 - viewed 31 times.)
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 09:57:59 am by kLLik » Logged

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kLLik
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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2017, 10:07:55 am »

If you wanna see map in game.

* avenue_sep1.s2z (27.63 KB - downloaded 11 times.)
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Tjens
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« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2017, 06:06:00 pm »

I check out the map ingame, and I think it looks good abeit a little bit darkish! Get some more brightness and color in there for maximum looks!

As for the subject of remakes, always a good idea!
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Hakugei
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2017, 09:18:46 pm »

Remaking is probably a good idea in general.
But be careful with naming and contact server admins about actually getting them played.
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drk
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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2017, 11:52:53 am »

Yep. remaking is a good idea, but as for me I would make a v2 new map and leave old untouched in the same time.
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kLLik
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« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2017, 02:30:53 pm »

what's the point to upload it as new v2 map??.. I will upload this in avenue_sep... and if you need old version you will have a map named old_avenue_sep..

I try to remake old maps not to create new versions for them...
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 02:32:37 pm by kLLik » Logged

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SavageBeard
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« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2017, 02:49:47 pm »

If you actually replace an old map, it  has to be purely and without any question only a bug fix. That is my opinion. It should also be quite a large bug fix, not something minor like a terrain exploit.

What you have done qualifies as a remake, changing props and all that. That is all fine, but it would be uploaded as a v2, and not as a replacement to the original.

The original map is the original map. If you didn't make the map, you don't have the right to overwrite it with your remake. But you are free to upload your remake on the side.
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Daemon
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« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2017, 03:34:58 pm »

Not to mention replays would be messed up.
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kLLik
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« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2017, 04:24:08 pm »

That's the problem with savage, You cannot give up with old maps, if we have chance to get a better version for original map why we can't do it? why we must keep both versions, old and new? 10 years ago that map had last update... No one don't give a shit about it.. and you talk about rights..

I just try to make some old maps to have a great looking scenary.. 
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Crashday
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« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2017, 05:36:04 pm »

I get kLLik's point, not to forget that most players do not visit these forums and might not know about the remakes.
However, completely replacing old maps, especially those standard maps, is currently problematic.
If we were able save each version and would be able to restore a map to a previous state at any time then it would be no problem at all I guess.
As of right now I see no problem with replacing old maps if the changes only include texture/paint revamps.
If terrain is deformed or props are altered then I think a new map version is adequate.
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SavageBeard
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« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2017, 06:27:53 pm »

That's the problem with savage, You cannot give up with old maps, if we have chance to get a better version for original map why we can't do it? why we must keep both versions, old and new? 10 years ago that map had last update... No one don't give a shit about it.. and you talk about rights..

I just try to make some old maps to have a great looking scenary..  



When I went through all the maps in the newerth database a while back, there were a ton of remakes of popular maps. I would say some were pretty good, some were outright terrible and most were just pretty much mediocre. Which one of the countless remakes should have permanently replaced the original eden, by the way?

Even if it's just about changing textures, I think that's completely unneccesary. Did you really make it undeniably better, or just different? And how can you say that your version of different is the one that everyone should prefer?

There's no such thing as an obviously better version of an old map. It's your opinion, and not everyone will agree with it. Fan fiction is allowed, but you don't get to rewrite the original story. You're free to upload a map as a remake v2, and people can choose to play that version if they want to.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 06:29:45 pm by SavageBeard » Logged
kLLik
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« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2017, 01:24:05 pm »

When I went through all the maps in the newerth database a while back, there were a ton of remakes of popular maps. I would say some were pretty good, some were outright terrible and most were just pretty much mediocre. Which one of the countless remakes should have permanently replaced the original eden, by the way?

There is no good remake for eden2 yet.

Even if it's just about changing textures, I think that's completely unneccesary. Did you really make it undeniably better, or just different? And how can you say that your version of different is the one that everyone should prefer?

Yeah, its unneccesary, nohope example:
Lets have this:

Not this:

Or this:

And for sure not this:


There's no such thing as an obviously better version of an old map. It's your opinion, and not everyone will agree with it. Fan fiction is allowed, but you don't get to rewrite the original story. You're free to upload a map as a remake v2, and people can choose to play that version if they want to.

Yeah is just my opinion, that's why i made a poll, so people can vote Good idea if they agree or Bad idea if they will not agree.

And avenue_sep, nohope and more others should be offline because they don't follow the rules.

General requirements of maps in order to be permitted:
  • a reasonable farclip setting between 2000 and 3600 (depends on the map)
  • fog switched on and visible
  • (proper) use of occluders
  • no exploits - especially check grimms walls in game for this!
  • no other bugs in general (e.g. spawn flags you can't spawn from)
  • overhead map images are required. they have to be in the jpg image format and 512x512 pixels in size.

avenue_sep have 100.000 farclip and nohope 10.000.
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Aneurysm
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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2018, 11:13:02 am »

No disrespect intended but honestly the original avenue_sep looks better than your rework. I would take a plain green textured map over that overstretched repeating canyon texture that you've tiled all over the hills.

This is the problem with remakes/reworks they are usually at best a subjectively slightly better version than the original rather than something that obviously stands as a truly improved upgrade. When you open the flood gates to people replacing originals rather than creating a version of that original, then you are placing all your hopes on the assumption that who ever is remaking the map has a higher level of skill or artistry than the original map creator.

I have certainly done my fair share of remakes, and I will be the first to admit that some of my earlier attempts leave a lot to be desired. But I guess this is all part of the learning curve of a map designer. Remaking maps is a great way to test and challenge your aesthetics. If in the end you truly make something worthy of replacing the original, then you will invariably see people start to adopt your version over the original at any rate as people will call the map they prefer.

Finally, your map also includes changes in the props and I think perhaps the terrain too? In this case, it is most certainly important to then ensure the map is considered an alternative version as this can obviously impact game play, even if those changes seem really small and insignificant to you on the surface, they can have much larger impacts on the balance of the game than may be first obvious.


Edit: I don't want to make it seem like I am shitting on your work btw kLLik. I think you have made some nice changes in your version. I simply think that its important to keep them as different versions.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 11:52:07 am by Aneurysm » Logged

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