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Author Topic: Selfubffing on Server (G&G or GK)  (Read 4586 times)
Daemon
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« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2016, 08:15:46 pm »

Because it wasn't something intended to be available to everyone playing the stock game. And you can thank me for not allowing Clemens to remove buffs altogether, in a feat of madness! Tongue

Everybody had the script, so instead of implementing it you removed it.
No. That's just hacker excuses.
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jazzking
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« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2016, 09:24:53 pm »

Then this is a problem of education and not server settings. But even considering elecs did not even exist and this would not be an issue, how do you solve this?

I think it's a balance problem. When catapults had huge splash damage, we realized that it wasn't fun so it was nerfed. Now everyone is happy and catas have a decent situational use. I haven't heard of one player who left because they miss spamming catas.
The same problem exists with 1v1 self-buffs and one-hit kill ballistas (summs are ok because there is time to dodge/block. Slow balli projectile would make it harder to kill players but not change killing buildings). Balance should try to make these three goals align:
1. playing to win
2. playing to have fun
3. playing in a way that is fun for others to play against
They are not mutually exclusive.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 09:26:59 pm by jazzking » Logged

Trigardon
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« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2016, 09:40:58 pm »

Because it wasn't something intended to be available to everyone playing the stock game. And you can thank me for not allowing Clemens to remove buffs altogether, in a feat of madness! Tongue

Everybody had the script, so instead of implementing it you removed it.
No. That's just hacker excuses.


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^.#Tasty
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« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2016, 09:41:49 am »

I dont think there is Need a Need to nerf ballista... but anyway jazzking got the Point!

This game should be fun for EVERYONE!

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Daemon
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« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2016, 10:40:11 am »

I dont think there is Need a Need to nerf ballista... but anyway jazzking got the Point!

This game should be fun for EVERYONE!

When you say everyone, you certainly don't mean:
-the newbs, who stand no chance against anybody that's played more than a week.
-the unskilled melee players, who can't match pro's skill and resort to siege units.
-buffers, who go by self-buffing against people that would kill them otherwise.
-the healers, who get sick of dying around the clock cuz Daemon is too much of a pussy to boost them properly Tongue.
-phoe

Basically by everyone, you mean 'veterans who can pwn at melee but only in certain conditions, so they want that the game to be turned into a series of 1-on-1 duels without the interfering of buffs, comms or gankers".
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^.#Tasty
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« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2016, 11:04:31 am »

-Learn the Game
-Still learn the game
-THE THE POINT!!!
-Didint you learn the game already?
-/ignore


your arguments aren't really waterproof
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Daemon
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« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2016, 02:18:20 pm »

I dare say that learning a game, like with any system, means understanding the system, adapting to it and using it in such a way that it brings you the best possible results. Whereas you're crying bloody murder! and want to change the game instead of adapting to it. This is certainly not a re-balancing situation because disabling self buff will obviously be done for both races. It's just a matter of playstyle preferences.
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Stringer
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« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2016, 05:48:43 pm »

I dare say that learning a game, like with any system, means understanding the system, adapting to it and using it in such a way that it brings you the best possible results.
Now THAT is a hacker excuse if I ever saw one :p
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« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2016, 06:03:59 pm »

I dare say that learning a game, like with any system, means understanding the system, adapting to it and using it in such a way that it brings you the best possible results.
Now THAT is a hacker excuse if I ever saw one :p

I didn't say exploit flaws in maps made by amateurs, nor did i say create advantages for yourself outside the game boundaries.

Anyway, i've said too much, like always Smiley. GL finding a cure!
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 06:51:35 pm by Daemon » Logged

jazzking
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« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2016, 09:10:27 pm »

and want to change the game instead of adapting to it. This is certainly not a re-balancing situation because disabling self buff will obviously be done for both races. It's just a matter of playstyle preferences.

Firstly it's not only pros who must deal with annoying self buffers. Buffers happily use buffs against someone where it's an even fight.

Secondly, the adaptation you can make against a buff (or someone who is going to buff) is minimal. It does not add anything new to the combat it just means that you must do the same thing more with fewer mistakes. Don't get hit, hit them more.

It's not about making things easier for vets, it's about having a meaningful progression available to every player. Noobs will have more have fun becoming pro with practice, not going even with pros by spamming self buffs.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 09:16:31 pm by jazzking » Logged

Daemon
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« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2016, 09:40:35 pm »

Perhaps then y'all should decide what category of players are actually the ones self-buffing in a bad way. Can't be those newbies. Hard to even know which keys are used for that.
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LazyFly
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« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2016, 11:22:03 pm »

People wasting buffs are the people who 1v1 elec when there is no danger of loosing shield, or mag sums that are no where near base, or again, heal or fire 1v1 when there is no threat to tech. buffing simply for the sake of getting kills/not dying.
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Ale
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« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2016, 07:53:00 am »

Or perhaps you should just stop talking as nothing you have said so far has added anything valuable to this discussion. Everybody understood the issue by just reading the topic headline just you seem to be deliberately misunderstanding everything.

It seems you are not even trying to make a point or defending yours or anybody else's position, it seems like you are just trying to be right, which is not helping at all. But just in case you honestly haven't understood the issue yet, let me recap just one last time:

The problem:
Players using team resources (i.e. buff energy) for their own personal advantage (e.g. boosting their own stats or plain trolling).

The symptoms:
Other players (in particular players trying to fight for their team (e.g. shield saccers, demo runners, etc.) or players trying to maintain some sportsmanship and fair play in this game) having less fun or even getting frustrated by either getting killed by so called "lame buffs" or not having enough buff energy to pursue their own goals.

The question:
What kind of gameplay do we want to support? Payers fighting for themselves and their own personal selfish enjoyment  or people teaming up, fighting together for a higher probably more sophisticated goal, maintaining a friendly atmosphere, enjoying this game TOGETHER?

Possible solution for the former:
Get rid of rules and referees and leave the server settings as they are.

Possible solutions for the latter:
- Changing server settings, allowing selfbuffs for officers only.
- Trigger a serverside message informing other players about which selfbuff has been used by who.
- Removing selfbuffs alltogether.

My personal opinion:
I definitely support the latter even though I tend to buff a lot myself. Yes some of my buffs ain't fair and some of you guys might hate me for that but I'd say at least 85 % of my buffs are for the team and at least 50% of them are quite successful. That  being said, I would rule out the first proposition as it should be comms decision who may use his buffs and who shan't, not some hard coded server setting. As I hardly see players actually abusing selfbuffs for the infamous "lame buffs" I consider solution no 3 as too drastic just for now  and would go with solution no 2 if any action is needed at all. Just make sure, the messages can't be seen by the enemy team as they should be unaware of the amount of buff energy is backing up the enemies at any point in time.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 08:58:32 am by Ale » Logged
Shagroth
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« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2016, 05:11:18 pm »

My opinion on buffs after being the victim of sides of the story too many times(buffed and buffed against) is:

  • If a player buffs in a 1v1, and probably kills the other player with this buff - his team loses a potential crucial buff against buildings or some other place it would most likely be used better. My personal mindset is this: better on me than on my tech - this is how I learned to cope with numberless amounts of buffs vs me.  
  • The commander has the ability to choose wether he wants to have buffs on for officers, everyone or no-one. In my eyes it is always best for commanders to have it on officer with a very select few officers that will rather ask for a powerup from a guy who sees everything on the map which quickly can decide if its worth a buff in that situation or not. He is the better judge of the situation than anyone else is(unless it is achiles)

the main thing that stalls games is siege camping, it is the sole reason some games draw and no progress can be made,
not some loony using buffs on everything (but it does slow down progress)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 05:14:46 pm by Shagroth » Logged

Daemon
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« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2016, 07:15:17 pm »

Or perhaps you should just stop talking as nothing you have said so far has added anything valuable to this discussion. Everybody understood the issue by just reading the topic headline just you seem to be deliberately misunderstanding everything.

No, i am not the one with a simplistic view of a thing that's quite complex. Neither are you - you proposed multiple scenarios, multiple solutions - even admitted that a portion of your self buffs are lame buffs. But many other people posting here got it pretty black and white in their minds: self-buffing sucks therefore it has to be restricted. And i'm just helping them along in trying to refine what they believe to be the problem and the people causing it.

=============

I'll quote a part of what someone told me in a private chat, which perfectly illustrates the multi faceted issue at hand, as you noticed yourself:

[2:38:23 AM] All that discussion about buffing is ill-defined...
[2:41:46 AM] There will always be buff wars as long as people are not saint. :p
If I get 1v1 elec buffed by the same person 3-4 spawns in a row, I will be smarter and spawn a siege unit next time. And I will also consider always fire buffing that person first, because if I don't buff first -- I will die. Wink

I might never even realize that I got all those 1v1 elec buffs because T1 were moving workers and building a gar somewhere nearby...
[2:44:53 AM] In my opinion, most of the buff-drama comes from oblivious misunderstandings like that.
There are not many evil players who like to grief others by buffing... Just different value system and situational awareness... Say, Elendil will always use all buffs near flags, while other players don't consider it that important and will feel insulted by all these buffs...
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 07:17:39 pm by Daemon » Logged

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