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Author Topic: Refs power, gaming culture on Europe server and the team-exploit dilemma  (Read 8936 times)
Hakugei
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2014, 06:42:50 am »

Me being admin does not even hold any relevance for this topic.
You know I'm right, you just don't like it. Rolleyes
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BrownAle
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2014, 09:01:30 am »

Me being admin does not even hold any relevance for this topic.

Randomly throwing shit at people is what this topic is about. That's exactly what you just did with Nightmare.

Hakugei has done a huge amount of work on Savage over the past couple of months
(...)
All in all, it would be more constructive to try and convince Hakugei to accept more power and do more things.

Hitler built the Autobahn and did alot of good things for German economy. Was it therefore ok to let him reign?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 09:12:47 am by Ale » Logged
Hakugei
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2014, 09:12:18 am »

So you didn't actually read and understand what I said...
Too bad.
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BrownAle
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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2014, 09:17:30 am »

I did. You verbally attacked NM after he explained his reluctance to take care of every braindead flamer in the game. But he was right. Muting stupid people will cause more stupid people to act stupid and therefore would be deconstructive. Too bad you didn't see that.

Insulting NM for explaining himiself in the harsh way you did is just like randomly kicking around in my eyes. But whatever, I'm not gonna join your shittalk argument today.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 09:26:39 am by Ale » Logged
Daemon
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« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2014, 11:03:47 am »

Hakugei has done a huge amount of work on Savage over the past couple of months
(...)
All in all, it would be more constructive to try and convince Hakugei to accept more power and do more things.

Hitler built the Autobahn and did alot of good things for German economy. Was it therefore ok to let him reign?

So besides laboring for a community that hates him, despite his better judgement, simply having opinions makes him a genocidal nazi maniac?

And i guess telling Amy she's got sand in her vagina is cool coming from you, and it's not throwing shit at people. If it were up to me, i would ban you per siempre cuz of that.
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Hakugei
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« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2014, 11:53:05 am »

You didn't understand a thing. Sad
Please stop wasting my time, Ale, you're still not worth it.
You're still sore that I ruined your egotistical fun in the past and there was nothing you could do about it.

As for the topic at hand:
Refs need to be able to handle the stress while making reason-based decisions.
If they cannot do either for whatever reason, they're not a good ref.
Any ref that fails to do so is allowed to walk away easily as it is just a volunteer position - this is perfectly fine.
What isn't acceptable, however, is to fail upholding your responsibility and use "volunteer" as an excuse to continue making bad decisions or even intentionally abusing your power for yourself.
And thus, I have no reason to be nice to someone like that.
e.g. people like Nightmare and Ale.  Afro
You do not deserve friendliness, so please do not expect any.
Using excuses to justify abuse is disgusting. Smiley
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Hakugei
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« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2014, 02:14:09 pm »

~Ale's flaming post has been deleted.~
Next time it's a ban. <3

  • Flaming & Bashing
    Hate posts and personal attacks will not be tolerated on the Newerth Boards. Treat others on these message boards as you would expect them to treat you. Talking trash about another user or posting topics specifically to provoke a negative response from an individual, a group or an entire community is not acceptable on the Newerth Boards. These posts will be deleted and will result in a ban.

    Board bashing is also not allowed on the Newerth Boards. Please respect the various communities on the Newerth Boards system. If another board is not your favorite, there's no need to complain about it. Simply refrain from visiting it. Board bashing posts will be deleted.
       
  • Trolling
    We are all entitled to our opinions and that may included negative opinions about a console/game/anything else, but if you are knowingly or purposely posting to incite anger/negativity on the board or from the community, you will be banned for trolling. These boards are meant for meaningful discussions and debates, not a place for you to start trouble. Be mindful.
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Bullet
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« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2014, 03:50:22 pm »

  • Flaming & Bashing
    Hate posts and personal attacks will not be tolerated on the Newerth Boards. Treat others on these message boards as you would expect them to treat you. Talking trash about another user or posting topics specifically to provoke a negative response from an individual, a group or an entire community is not acceptable on the Newerth Boards. These posts will be deleted and will result in a ban.

    Board bashing is also not allowed on the Newerth Boards. Please respect the various communities on the Newerth Boards system. If another board is not your favorite, there's no need to complain about it. Simply refrain from visiting it. Board bashing posts will be deleted.
       
  • Trolling
    We are all entitled to our opinions and that may included negative opinions about a console/game/anything else, but if you are knowingly or purposely posting to incite anger/negativity on the board or from the community, you will be banned for trolling. These boards are meant for meaningful discussions and debates, not a place for you to start trouble. Be mindful.
Hakugei: You're right. A good ref doesn't care about the "dammn if... dammn it not" dilemma. He is consequent, and does what his reason tells him to do. If he recieves constructive critique later for his actions, he should consider resigning his positions.

How come there is such good rules and management of trollers and flamers on newerth.com and not ingame? It's a good question.

With that beeing said, I dont have anything against Ale who got his post removed (?)

Answer to Nightmare: The second you adjust the ideal refere role to the community, you've lost. If community is bad and trollig, and you as a result of that, quit muting trollers on the server because you think: "It's a part of the game, everybody does it on the internett". Well guess what, Savage's playerbase is DYING and there will be less new players likely to join the game with it consisting of trollers and flammers. Maybe you like the entertainment and creative insults in the chat, but most people don't like it if they're the one recieving it. Also, Savage's advertising funds ain't exactly "rich", so get your head together and start reflection on your in-game behavior. A nice community is more important than good gameplayer trailers on youtube.
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Hakugei
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« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2014, 03:53:01 pm »

Newerth is, for the most part, not associated with any of the servers.
So rules are unique to one another.

Also, rules matter not if there are no people to enforce them, more so if it has come to pass that rule ignoring/breaking is an acceptable thing. Thus, rules are pointless if there is nothing backing them up.
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Bullet
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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2014, 04:09:35 pm »

Newerth is, for the most part, not associated with any of the servers.
So rules are unique to one another.

Of course. But if you compare the 2 "societies", they got several similiarties. Everyone is logged in to it, but have people in power of removing rule breakers (The executives) and some "law makers" in form of administrators (The legislate).  Difference is, on newerth.com I find the people here to be mostly nice and friendly, and admins/moderators are more consequently in their action against flammers/trollers. However, also way easier to see proof for "illegal" actions. In-game, it's way harder to prove someone did somehting, unless ref was/is present when something happened. Also, people are in-game for fun, and here they are for discussion. But in-game is just as important to keep "clean", considering people play the game for fun. And rule breakers = less/no fun.  If people can't play the game anymore and have fun, we've lost.
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Haika
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« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2014, 04:53:21 pm »

How the heck is this guy still an admin?

It might not be clearly visible from outside of the admin/development team, but Hakugei has done a huge amount of work on Savage over the past couple of months. Usually those are the things that no other admins or developers have skills, time or motivation to do. And ironically, that accounts for the most things that have to be done.

Hakugei was promoted to admin in order to sort out the mess caused by JmZ's script, and to make sure that a situation like this is unlikely to happen again. His promotion is backed by all other admins. However, I'm pretty sure he'll resign from being an admin again very soon, if not quit the development team altogether.

All in all, it would be more constructive to try and convince Hakugei to accept more power and do more things, rather than try to get rid of him. More things will get accomplished this way.  Afro

Griffon, there are few times i second you, but despite your shait job at your once senseless reffing, i gotta say that you have a point.

If hakugei left i wouldnt blame him tbh. Im trying to show my gratitude and i appreciate what he does to help the game, and if he does something behind the scene im sure it has a positive impact. However people in savage in general dont appreciate, and take for granted. From my understanding if haku leaves the developing, it will stop. If i understand right i hope to have you on the ship as long as possible.
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Nightmare
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« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2014, 02:03:33 am »

Strange, all I did was explain my view and rather than give me a reasonable response, I'm treated to post after post of thinly veiled insults suggesting that I am irresponsible, unintelligent, a ref abuser (hard to do that when I don't play and when I do, I don't even use ref unless necessary), egotistical (guilty), and "neglecting my duty".  So you quote the part of the rules about personal attacks and cite it as a reason to delete Ale's post (I don't care about that, I didn't even see it), and yet in your posts you directly insult me on several occasions.  That's just immature and hypocritical.

You have no base to judge my reffing and certainly no evidence to make it out like the problems on the US server are my fault (I barely play), you've never seen me ref and I only outlined one example where I didn't take action which was the correct choice as I cannot kick people based on hearsay.  If I kicked or muted people every time someone came to me and said "He did this, she did that!" then there would be no point to having refs.  I even said that I still mute if the flaming has escalated to personal attacks, but I'm not going to mute someone for every curse word.  Exploiters are still kicked swiftly and without warning unless they are nubs (though that is rare).  If you are seeing ref abuse on the US server, then insult those refs, not someone you've never even seen in game.

In summary, your accusations about me were unfounded, without merit, and a very poor showing of immaturity that I didn't expect from an admin.
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Bullet
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« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2014, 11:16:58 pm »

Got an idea to counter trolls. Would enabeling VOIP decrease the amount of trolling? I think so. Ofc. I am aware the current problem with VOIP on mac-clients (they crash). However,  my theory is that VOIP would make the players feel less anonymous. Like commenting bullshit on the internett is harder to do when u represent it with your full name. VOIP have that effect aswell I think, because people get the feeling they're talking to someone in a more personal way than for instance, chatting. Also, critique of the trolls can be told trough VOIP, and have a good effect.   Just a thought, ofc. its not possible to enable is as long as the mac- problem excists, however, I hope this might be an issue the devs (if there is any left), can prioritize this now.
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DarknesS
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« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2014, 10:27:52 am »

Make it so that
- Player joining can't call a vote for 60 seconds
- Player joining can only write 1 chat line, 2 after 20 seconds,... (increase spam limit slowly)
- Players joining can't vote on votes in progress
- Refs can temporarily disable joining from a certain ip range

Should be rather easy changes (1-3) and make trolling a lot less fun after being kicked.
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Storky
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« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2015, 12:56:21 pm »

Not the best idea to clean dying community of trolls and try to make difference between trolls and gameruiners.
Most noble trolls not changing nick and can be easily ignored, but if player switching /name its hard to do.

Do newbies care about trolls - they even dont read chat, they just care about gameplay and how much meat playing on the server.
60 peoples at evening made laugh my friends, when I tried to seduce them to play Savage Afro

Conclusion: kicking peoples even if they are trolls killing our community.
Better keep fighting vs bad guys who abusing weakness of kicking, muting, changing names to ruin the matches.

p.s. f1 for  proposition by Darkness
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 01:01:58 pm by Storky » Logged

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