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Savage: XR is a new patch for Savage, created by the Newerth.com staff. The XR1.1 Client is out now! Download it now!
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Author Topic: Savage XR 1.1 Patch  (Read 51661 times)
Hakugei
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« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2014, 08:18:34 pm »

That's what I just said, Tirza.

Test it, then post feedback to motivate adjustments.
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JmZ
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« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2014, 08:26:53 pm »

As I said, it was optional (Evolution) for more than at least a year.
People were already able to test it (and did once in a while - I don't have the exact numbers), and people already gave feedback to it. These changes came from suggestions from the community, then said community commented on it, and now the community gets it in the game.

The process you described already happened.

Now, the changes are implemented, and people can test them again, as well as give feedback, again.
As Daemon said here:
Even after discussions spanning more than 180.000 views and more than 1000 replies, the changes above ARE SUBJECTED TO FURTHER TWEAKING pending community feedback! Nothing is really ever final with Savage, so do not panic and enjoy the game Smiley.
So please test stuff for a while, and then give appropriate feedback to revisit certain features and changes.

It shouldn't be a global choice made by the devs (with community input). It should be a toggle which the server admins can choose to enable or disable, based on *their players' opinions*. You may well have got good feedback and people may well want this, but at the end of the day it should be their choice and not yours. If they one day want to switch back to the normal gameplay, it should be possible with a config alteration.

I understand you did all of this acceptance stuff through the evo mod, but thats exactly what it should really be, a mod. Which can be enabled by default or disabled (rather than being voted). This way, if the players like it, they  can have it, otherwise we turn (major changes) off.

The point here is, it is not a global choice to be made by you. It is a choice which should be made by the server admins and their particular communities. Even better, each individual change should be possible to be rolled back just like we can change stamina, etc.

For example, what if everyone decides they don't want shaman's extra swing (just an example, most won't mind that change)? We should be able to just go in the config and disable it, NOT post on here, get "community opinions" and change it in the next update. These are ALL server configuration, none should be hardcoded.

It is very important this be possible.

P.S. i dont mind enabling it and likely will, when i have the choice. it won't be pushed aside like evo mod was (at times).
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Hakugei
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« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2014, 08:32:32 pm »

It should be a toggle which the server admins can choose to enable or disable
No thank you.
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jazzking
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« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2014, 08:34:35 pm »

Everyone's acting like we even have enough players for a diversity of gameplay through server choice.

The fragmentation of server settings (between the groentjuh's) and rulesets (between us and eu) is its own problem because the devs cannot make updates targeted to a unified Savage experience. More severe imo is that pubs and cws are so different.

It would be fine to give server admins choices if there was always another server you can join, but there isn't.
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JmZ
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« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2014, 08:42:55 pm »

Most of the changes should be configurable anyhow, as everything has been since the day the game was released. It doesn't make much sense to hardcode such changes which are obviously just more config.

Me and groentjuh are both open to trying all the new features, but if the players decide they dont want some parts of it, we should be able to disable those parts. It is quite simple.

Also just to be clear, i am talking about things such as stamina changes, shaman melee, lista changes, etc. Anything which affects "physics" or objects. Things like the marking and such, they can be enabled by default, i dont mind as they dont alter gameplay as much.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 08:45:36 pm by JmZ » Logged



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Hakugei
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« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2014, 08:44:33 pm »

Me and groentjuh are both open to trying all the new features
This is not true.
Server admins have disabled new features as soon as they were released, thus making testing and feedback gathering impossible.
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JmZ
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« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2014, 08:46:24 pm »

Because you left a nice segfault in there.

My server was down for 2-3 hours because of that, so thanks for fixing it but thats the reason we don't have 1.1 right now (and the fact that it'd be nice to disable some of the changes if needed).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 08:57:16 pm by JmZ » Logged



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Hakugei
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« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2014, 09:04:36 pm »

Because you left a nice segfault in there.
I'm talking about many of the past patches, not this one.

And the only way to make sure it works on servers full-scale, is to test it on servers full-scale.
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JmZ
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« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2014, 09:11:36 pm »

I never disabled anything manually, I left it on autoupdate for a long time and didn't change the config at all. If anything was disabled by default, you disabled it.

Anyhow, the issue still remains that gameplay-changing features need to have a cvar each just like all the current features. It would also be nice to have the option to disable outposts and such, any new structures as they change gameplay drastically also.

I'm not saying I will disable them, the community will decide that.
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APirateHat
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« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2014, 10:01:21 pm »

Some initial thoughts about the dual marking.

While I think it's cool and a nice addition it isnt well implemented when you think about new players. The orders of the commander are the most important ones but how whould a newbie know it's that flag on the mininap he should follow? I can see it being pretty confusing. Possible solution: smaller size of the officer minimap icon.

Another thing that confused me as well was the change on the colour on the minimap icon to red when it's about attacking something. This could perhaps be good if there wasnt the dual marking but now there are four different colours that you have tokeep track of. The minimap should be easy to read at a glance but the addition of several colours makes it confusing. One(two if you count offi) colour is actually enough as the bar at the top tells you what you need to do.
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Daemon
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« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2014, 10:19:42 pm »

@APH: So you'd rather not know what the order is just by 'glancing' at the minimap, but wondering what that single green flag is instead. Okay... So you think that what will confuse the new players is orders having a proper color, not the overbuffed vets farming them. Okay...

@JmZ:
- New vote type facilitating playing any mod on any server on any time: "/callvote mod mod_name". This will simply load the specified mod on the map currently loaded (if it doesn't use special maps). This is greatly helping with the next entry.

- The gameplay changes discussed in the Re-Balancing Suggestions forum are carefully analyzed and tweaked by a group of Newerth admins, and implemented in a sandbox-type mod, called "Evolution". Players will be able to load it at anytime and experience the new changes and then, community input is welcome before transplanting them to mainstream Savage servers. Last discussed suggestion was S18. These are the results, which don't automatically exclude the suggestions not present here, in view of a holistic approach to re-balancing:

Our intentions were announced 3 years ago (Sept. 2nd 2011). They were reiterated 2 years ago when XR 1.0 was launched (Sept. 17th 2012). While you were trying out hax, the community complained about the game being stale and siege whoring ruining the game while i was fighting everyone that cried "REBALANCE!". When that subject began hijacking every single thread, we created the Re-Balancing forum section. Now THAT is Community at work. If you think you represent the Community better than dozens of people which contributed to the discussions producing 1000+ posts and 180.000+ views, then kudos to you.
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Ophelia
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« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2014, 11:10:04 pm »

When COMMANDER (red) targets someone - it remains until he targets something else, is this how it should be? Someone is more or less perma-targeted on leet right now. very lol. Angry
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Daemon
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« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2014, 11:15:12 pm »

It is just like before - only now officers' orders don't replace comm orders. A target that was marked stays so, like before, until it is killed or a new order is issued - this time, comm's only. Hopefully people will be able to track incoming sacwave now that a random offi can't remove the tag by targeting a monkit Tongue.

[edit]

WAT

'sacwave' is a valid word for my browser spellchecker.
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Hakugei
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« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2014, 11:18:50 pm »

When COMMANDER (red) targets someone - it remains until he targets something else, is this how it should be? Someone is more or less perma-targeted on leet right now. very lol. Angry
Did the target die?
Is the server updated?
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Ophelia
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« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2014, 11:25:00 pm »

When COMMANDER (red) targets someone - it remains until he targets something else, is this how it should be? Someone is more or less perma-targeted on leet right now. very lol. Angry
Did the target die?
Is the server updated?


Yes 5x
No. (Leet, lol)


Edit: I was on t2 if that matters?
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