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Author Topic: Server Setting Standardization  (Read 18089 times)
DonkeyJaw
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« on: April 03, 2012, 09:08:25 pm »

I've noticed that certain game settings (respawn time, lag compensation, XP, etc.) are inconsistent across the SWC match servers.  For example, on Leet US Match 1 the repawn time is something like 15 seconds, whereas on WW Match 1 the respawn time is closer to 30 seconds.  The difference might seem insignificant, but every second counts during a sac or bali rush.  Teams do not have equal opportunity to attack at the same rate respective to being home or away.  In other words, the away team on Leet US Match 1 can sac the SH twice as quickly as the away team on WW Match 1.  This same reasoning applies to lag compensation, XP, and probably other settings that I'm not aware of.

Can we standardize these settings?
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H3027
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2012, 09:30:28 pm »

The competitive settings are since many many years:

No autobuffs
standard xp (default XR settings -> check multiplay.co.uk servers or any official match server)
30 seconds respawn time (it is impossible to die more than 89 times in a match, good players know to time their deaths)
standard gold (1500 starting gold, 12500 max gold)

Since around 2007 on almost all servers:
building placement 0.3 instead of 0.5 (allows to build buildings a little closer together)

Since around 2009:
No commander electing votes



USA Leet Matches has probably:
5000 starting gold (enough to buy 3x sac + frenzy without touching an NPC/enemy/building), 15000 max gold
super high xp for everything
autobuffs fully enabled
15 seconds respawn time
uphill leaps

The brasilian match server has:
no idea about gold settings, but probably rather high lol
super high xp for everything
autobuffs fully enabled
15 seconds respawn time
uphill leaps
different weapon damage/ammo settings for various weapons


The brazil vs USA match was already played and what USA Leet Matches concerns:
JMZ doesn't seem to care about changing any settings as long as the US community doesn't bother supporting him with donations, which is understandable.
http://www.newerth.com/?id=donations&op=showWhosDonated&adminid=8
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 09:39:17 pm by H3027 » Logged



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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2012, 10:30:42 pm »

I told Jmz few times to change his setting but hes a pretty busy guy.
Maybe you should keep talking to him about the settings.
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Groentjuh
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2012, 10:46:55 pm »

DonkeyJaw, It's not like we do not want to do. The main problem is the many different parties are involved to achieve a standardization of the server settings of matches servers. I'll try to shed some light onto this problem in the next part of this post

First of all, 'recently' XR has become stable enough has CW server to upgrade to XR. CW server need to be more stable then for example a duel server or public server. If any to the last category crashes either 1 duel must be redone(takes a few seconds) or in case of a public server, It's just a case of shit happens. Not saying we do not care about the stability those kinds of servers, but it's slightly less a problem then when a CW server crashes.
Savage as you well know requires a team of players to play. Matches can also take hours and hours. Likely rules have made a time limitation of 45 minutes. This makes matches still 1 and a half hour long without the addition of the time it takes to gather the team, discus tactics and other pre-match events. So scheduling it is pretty hard and rematching a match is often not really a option. So even while XR is release a pretty while ago, this is one of the first tournament completely on XR servers.

In the weeks/months before the tournaments started, the active server administrators have been discussing and testing what settings they should want on the servers. XR introduced several need features and will likely include many more in the hopefully near future. Which of these new feature would be available is partly discussed with the clan representative of the NSL clans Quorum and other server administrators.
With the feedback that was gathered Valli, Tirza and I have discussed the new settings for XR match servers we would use. This resulted in WW Matches and Groentjuh's Matches running nearly the same settings. They run on different versions of XR which means there are some small differences, but nothing very game changing! For example squads is one of the differences between the servers. WW Matches has them, but Groentjuh's does not because on XR RC3 it had bugs which could crash the server.

So far so good, however it's a world wide tournament. There was also a team from the United States and a team from Brazil competing in this tournament. This meant that there were also servers needed in the US and in Brazil. As I do not have any powers roll out the same configuration on the US leet match server or the Brazilian server, I would need to contact the administrators of those servers.

Knowing the Brazilian server is one server without administrator able to install this configuration, I couldn't get that done on that server. Sadly the server is also outdated and might soon become incompatible with future XR clients.
The server also functions as the one Brazilian Public Server which means it is likely to run a configuration fit to public servers. More gold, more XP, lower respawn time, uphill leaps are all part of that.
Setting up this server is such a way that it can be both Match server and Public server is challenging however not impossible. I doubt any of their administrators would be capable of doing that in such a way it will not need extra maintenance to its settings in the future.

The relationship between JmZ, the administrator of US leet, and me isn't that good. He seems like he doesn't want to cooperate with me in this matter. One of the reasons seems to be that the US community doesn't donate enough so he can afford his server. As a result he doesn't care much about the maintenance of the servers. This could of course be an endless loop. The US community doesn't want to donate because the servers are poorly maintained and JmZ doesn't want to maintain his servers because the community doesn't want to donate.
Add to that in Europe both DJ(I think) and me are a financially in slightly better situation which doesn't improve the relationship between JmZ and me.
I have asked JmZ about using the configuration Valli, Tirza and I have compiled for match servers and am even willing to provide a (nearly) completely ready configuration for the US leet server, but JmZ doesn't want to maintain his server in such a way.

The only thing I have achieved is getting him to change 1 setting making his server record serverside demos. I cannot access those serverside demos, nor do I know for certain that the recordings are working properly. I trust him in having enabled it. If we will ever get access to these serverside demos is a question I will need to ask/discuss with him at a later date. At this time I do not know under what conditions we can receive access to those serverside demos, so it could mean many matches will either be partly on shoutcasted or cannot be shoutcasted at all.

The European EvO matches servers and the clan branded CW servers (Eon and SoV servers) also run different settings then those in WW matches and Groentjuh's Matches. I believe if there is a real need for preparing that match server for SWC matches it could be done. I would need to discuss it with its administrator DJ, but I'm pretty sure it is doable. However I do not believe there is any need for those servers. There are more then enough European SWC servers(5) at this point in time.

(Haven't you fallen asleep yet?) I hope this sheds some light on the situation. I doubt there will be a change in the situation, but I'm open for them if they come. Until then you will have to be thankful to JmZ to allowing us using his match server for SWC. I am willing to assist JmZ in using the configuration Valli, Tirza and I have compiled and would probably also help him to automate the process of uploaded serverdemos to a replay server. Without his cooperation nothing will change. As -Nemesis- said: Maybe you/the us team should keep talking to him about it.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 10:41:19 am by Groentjuh » Logged


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valli
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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2012, 12:31:48 am »

I can't add anything, Groentjuh said it all. I would as well recommend that the US players get in contact with JMZ to solve those problems.
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DonkeyJaw
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2012, 10:27:56 am »

Thanks for the thorough answers, everyone.  I don't have time to properly reply right now, but I'm glad the issue has at least been raised and addressed.  I'll bug Jmz when I see him.  It's true that the USA community doesn't appreciate what he does for them.  I'd donate money if I weren't a poor bastard.  

Be back tomorrow to try to substantively parse Groentjuh's essay  Tongue.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 10:29:40 am by DonkeyJaw » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2012, 12:07:00 pm »

JmZ was online yesterday, think he wants to copy paste g&g's match server settings so servers will finally step into a standardization Smiley
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Django
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2012, 08:10:40 pm »

I think uphill leap on should be a default setting for match servers, its seriously irritating having it turned off when everyone practices melee on servers with it on. I know some other's feel the same as I do and I'm not sure what the benefit is of having it off is?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 08:12:35 pm by Django » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2012, 08:14:09 pm »

I think uphill leap on should be a default setting for match servers, its seriously irritating having it turned off when everyone practices melee on servers with it on. I know some other's feel the same as I do and I'm not sure what the benefit is of having it off is?

and flux drain on stanima
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Hakugei
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2012, 08:16:15 pm »

Uphill leap is an abomination.
It makes no sense nor is it a good gameplay element.

And yes, it is stupid that public servers have it on. Smiley
But what'll you do, them beast whiners want it for more beastie fun.
You can't deny that beast is more fun, especially with advantages.
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BrownAle
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2012, 09:37:11 am »

I wouldnt call it abomination but its true that it makes no sense.
Turn it on on match servers or off on public servers (I would prefer last). This mix is seriously irretating. Also noobs always saying "wtf uphill leap?" in CWs are more then annoying.

Another suggestion I would like to make to synchronize match server settings is the squad-system. Its currently turned off on Groents match servers but on on vallis. Could you please turn it on everywhere? Its a great system for CWs.
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Groentjuh
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2012, 10:37:35 am »

The reason why squads are enabled at the WW matches and disabled at my server is because valli and I run different XR versions. The WW server are XR1.0 server.
Most of my servers are running RC3.

I dislike the current situation in XR a lot. The grab between XR RC3 and XR1.0 is getting bigger and bigger. XR1.0 has several nice feature I as serveradmin want to use. python, fixed squads, voip and several more are great things. It's very temping to upgrade to be able to use those features. Sadly though, XR1.0 is still under development so there is only a test client/server available. That means the basicly whatever developers commit to XR's repo and makes to through the compiler will be your client/server. If a developer makes a mistake, it will break many player's clients but also several servers. Groentjuh's & Girls, Groentjuh's Asia, Groentjuh's Replay, WW Matches XR and WW Matches 2 XR all using the XR test server.

Because it XR1.0 does work most of the time now, and because it has many nice new feature, more ppl are using it. The result of that is also causes a situation which is very unwanted. Let me show you by a recent not fixed situation.
Recently Daemon created a small stone mine. Seems like a nice additional, and was soon found in the XR1.0 test client. Mappers loved it and quickly used it in some maps. Like the XR RC3 maps, these maps are also prefixed with XR_. But now think what will happen if such a map is loaded on a server. Most players still use XR RC3. Those players will be missing those mini-redstone mine objects. Bye bye client!
Maps are getting incompatible between the RC3 and XR1.0 versions of XR, kicking the server empty if such certain XR1.0 maps are loaded by that XR1.0 server.

When it come at settings, server administrators need to be very careful with using the same settings between their servers. While XR1.0 will work fine with squads enabled, RC3 will crash with them enabled. It also misses a few settings of course, which means you will be forced to use squads instead of having the option to use it. On XR RC3 you cannot have officers outside of your squads, while options in XR1.0 will allow you to have the old officer behaviour mixed with squads. Meaning server administrators have to check for such problems when changing server versions.

XR1.0 should have a feature stop. However I can still see new features roll out. Hakugei recently added some anti-cheat measures. Mohican made servers check maps versions with their maps server.

I'm hoping that is it released very soon, so my RC3 server will all be XR1.0 server is a stable setup. Until then my match servers cannot have squads enabled, because that would crash them.
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Hakugei
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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2012, 10:45:41 am »

Hakugei recently added some anti-cheat measures.

That was far from recent.
Those were implemented half a year ago, but no dedicated testers were around so I disabled it (still left it in the code for the future) so other things could be implemented, fixed and tested without any interruptions.

Now that XR 1.0 was around the corner, we enabled it for a public stress test. Got to test it somehow.
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Django
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« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2012, 09:02:43 pm »

I wouldnt call it abomination but its true that it makes no sense.
Turn it on on match servers or off on public servers (I would prefer last). This mix is seriously irretating. Also noobs always saying "wtf uphill leap?" in CWs are more then annoying.

In addition to making it really hard to shift melee style for experienced players (if i'm a noob then what does that make the rest of the savage community?) that can actually feel the difference between the settings being on/off, uphill leap effects sac rushing and the amount of ground beast can cover.

I just played another SWC map with uphill leap off on a hilly map (duskhills_xp) that meant neither team could sac rush effectively leaving the win for t3 where beast preds were unable to push due to a big reduction in stamina. This means that if you play on a hilly map the outcome is more than likely going to be 1:0 win at best, even if your playing against a team of good players. This causes the map draw to have a large effect on the outcome of the league.

We already have low XP for the match server which means beast get lvl7 very late in the game and have to play with reduced stamina. That should be enough....

I'll be seriously considering not playing in the next league if there isn't uniform melee settings across the match servers and public servers.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 09:05:05 pm by Django » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2012, 09:08:31 pm »

Yep; G&G should not have all these beast flavor advantages, as it really messes you up for when you play a CW. Wink
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