Mafia 2 - Healers' War (SIGN-UP & POST GAME TALKS)

[Feathers]

Dervun gets healed by Feathers.

Frame this Dervun!

Continue IgorS I'm interested

[Gridfon]

N7:
This was one of the quitest nights. Once again we unanimously agree to kill Mind because we don't want to him to investigate we're humans. On top of that he said he's tired of being in the game during D6 so we just help him to get out.

• I send UnSaFe to kill Mind.
• happy does not use the vote manipulation, don't know about Tjens.

D7:

• Tjens lynched

N8:
There are 10 people. We intend to kill someone during the night so there will be 9 people at the start of D8, and there are 3 mafias remaining + 1 vote manipulation. A total of 4 votes. With 9 people in the game one needs 5 votes for an instant lynch. We discuss that given a chance we should reveal ourselves and instant lynch someone during the day.

An example of night time e-mail letter:

Dervun -> investigator
Faun -> claims fire shaman, 3 abilities
Pizlo -> claims Arcana Keeper, 2 abilites doubling NTAs
Skuggi -> claims Water Shaman, blocker
Valli -> Senses the use of magic
Winterfresh -> claims Master chaplain, healer
Mopok -> ?
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happy:
If you use Dervun for the vote manipulation, he might wait some time before actually voting that way + when he votes he might warn others to avoid doing the same. Additionally, if we still happen to do an instant lynch based on that he won't become a suspect of being mafia, everyone believes him too much.

We should choose a target who
1) will put your vote up asap without a second thought
2) has the chances to end up being suspected for being mafia

I think that would be Winterfresh, Faun, pizlo or Mopok.
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This night we want to choose a quiet target who is also amongst the most dangerous to us. Which people are most dangerous for us assuming we reveal ourselves?

Faun - because I think his third ability is night time kill (sounds a bit too powerful coupled with other two, but oh well)
Skuggi - for being able to block us
Winterfresh - for being able to heal
Mopok - ? (may be he is THE one with the night time kill?)

I think this night we should kill Skuggi or Faun.
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Who is the most likely to receive the second townie vote (after the vote manipulation guy votes?). I think it's Mopok rather than anyone else.
We can make Winter/Faun/pizlo vote for Mopok, wait for another townie to vote against Mopok and instant lynch Mopok by adding 3 more votes.

I would suggest using Faun to vote against Mopok. Probably not pizlo because who knows when he actually gets to his computer. May be still Winter because (+) people might believe him more than Faun but (-) he's less likely to be suspected that he lied about the vote manipulation.
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So. Assume everything goes perfect.

Skuggi dies during this night
Faun + <random> + happy + UnSaFe + me lynch Mopok
Preferably I put the final vote hence everyone is sure I'm indeed BBB.

Next night starts with 8 people: Dervun, Faun, Pizlo, Valli, Winter + us 3
If I did the final vote during the day, then the night-time-kill townie goes to kill me, and UnSaFe heals me.

We do a quiet lynch again, i.e. Pizlo.
We do another vote manipulation.

Next day starts with 7 people, including 3 of us + vote manipulation...
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Well, it can seemingly work, but the scheme like this is veeeeeeeeery fragile.
If both of you, happy and UnSaFe will be online when the day starts, we can try doing all this.
But if we fail (somehow likely) we lose the game. If we win, it will be rediculous.

IgorS

I'm glad we couldn't execute this, and Mopok got lynched nonetheless.

• happy orders Faun to vote against Mopok.
• I send UnSaFe to kill Skuggi. Skuggi gets healed by WinterFresh.

D8:

• Faun votes against Mopok and does not say us that he was manipulated.
• Mopok lynched.

N9:

Some of the people still in the game and their declared roles for reference
Skuggi - http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,14502.msg170436.html#msg170436
Faun - http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,14502.msg170366.html#msg170366
WinterFresh -
http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,14502.msg170330.html#msg170330
and
http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,14502.msg170339.html#msg170339
happy - http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,14502.msg170571.html#msg170571
UnSaFe - http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,14502.msg170486.html#msg170486
me - http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,14502.msg170783.html#msg170783
There's also Dervun, Valli and pizlo but I don't find their roles important anymore.

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* Notice that WinterFresh has a limited amount of potions and he has used 5 of them till now. Since he didn't mention anything to pizlo, he probably has at least one more. I would not expect him to have more. Giving him 7-8 potions is unreasonable as that's the not far from the expected number of days the game should last.

* Pizlo will cast the doubling spell on WinterFresh tonight so WinterFresh will heal two targets. We need to choose our kill carefully. I don't think WinterFresh will heal Faun since Faun was too quiet this day and he might be a traitor anyway. I also have suspicions WinterFresh can't heal himself. Those are two possible night targets for us.

* What happens between pizlo and WinterFresh can affect the game. If WinterFresh dies, then me+pizlo will suddenly become very suspicious of being mafia. That is bad and good. If we manage to lynch pizlo before me then it's great. If we lynch myself first - that's bad.
On the other hand, if WinterFresh survives, he confirms the role of pizlo. Then the following people will have a very solid story: Dervun, pizlo, Valli, WinterFresh, probably Skuggi as well. Leaving Faun and the 3 of us to be lynched. And if on top of that we kill Faun during the night, then all the heat goes against the 3 of us.

* Now think who is going to be blocked by Skuggi this night. Surely that's not Dervun (townie), pizlo (needs to prove his role), WinterFresh (townie), Valli (townie). So Skuggi will block one of the following people: Faun, IgorS, happy, UnSaFe. Assuming all the role claims are correct happy is able to kill me and WinterFresh.. Well.. I don't have much to back it up but I suspect Skuggi will block happy this night.

* Now look at Valli. He can see who is using the magic. There's a risk he is peaking at UnSaFe and might be able to catch UnSaFe lying that his NTA healing actually did not happen. That might be a reason for UnSaFe to spend a night healing for once..

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* What about Faun? In case his night time kill role is valid, he surely must have suspicions that at least one of me and happy is lying about our night time kills. If he happens to be townie, I would not be surprised if he kills one of us. But I'd like to discard that chance. Not very likely to happen.

* We know there are no traitors aligned with in this game. It means there's probably the last-man-standing faction. It's 1 or 2 people. It's one or both of Faun + Skuggi. Skuggi has a solid proof of his NTA abilities though, so we can only speculate that he's a traitor who has the role he claimed.

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Now there's lots of chances of what happens next.
I am afraid of Skuggi + Valli.
I am not that bothered about WinterFresh seeing that he's soon to be useless.
Faun is dangerous because no matter if he's a townie or last-man-standing, he will kill any of us as soon as he will be confident about his choice. Yet if we eliminate him, then we're left alone to take all the heat during the day.

So hm..
1) UnSaFe heals happy => happy needs to kill => we have no vote manipulation and can't brute force during the day => happy kills WinterFresh to go for the "IgorS+pizlo = mafia" story
2) happy uses the vote manipulation & UnSaFe kills
2.1) UnSaFe kills WinterFresh & happy manipulates Dervun against Faun or Skuggi (to make Dervun less vocal)
2.2) UnSaFe kills WinterFresh & happy manipulates Faun against Skuggi (if Faun keeps on hiding he was manipulated he'll get the suspicions on him)
2.3) UnSaFe kills Faun & happy manipulates Dervun against Skuggi (to make Dervun less vocal)

I am not considering to kill Valli as there's clearly a lot more chances he'll get healed rather than Faun/Winter.. But we can think about it.

To be honest I don't want to consider 1) just to make an alibi for UnSaFe, we need to risk and use 2) if we want to kill. Amongst the 2) I like the option 2.3) the least because, yes, we take all the heat. So I vote for 2.1) or 2.2): UnSaFe kills WinterFresh and happy chooses the manipulation he like the most.

I'll be reading the e-mail for the most of the next 4 hours if anyone of you want to discuss that all.

IgorS

And actually, I would consider 2.3) as well. If we block the day vote this day we'll reveal ourselves and Faun will have a good choice of possible targets for his kill. That's a considerable risk.

Hm, yes, I would prefer 2.3) over 2.1) and 2.2).

IgorS

And still if Skuggi blocks UnSaFe or happy, then we're in a bad position. Either we will have no kill or no chances to brute force.
If you also think this is likely to be expected from Skuggi, we should still consider 2.1) and 2.2). Going for me+pizlo will last us longer.

So yeah.. Think about it.. 2.1)-2.2) or 2.3)... Which should we choose..

Or even 1)....

IgorS

It's very likely that someone of us will get lynched if we don't head for a draw on votes.
That will reveal our roles. Hence, it's very important to get rid of Faun.

If we manange to kill Faun and manipulate Devrun's vote the only thing that can stop us
will be Skuggi if he blocks me next night.

happii  

• happy forces Dervun to vote against Skuggi.
• I send UnSaFe to kill Faun.

Skuggi blocks happy.


D9:
Dervun not casting his vote for the first ~18 hours of the day makes me believe the vote manipulation worked and he's trying to get any information from mafia before putting his vote against Skuggi.

I spent literally hours trying to figure the details of my role here, writing it down for clarity and sending it to Daemon for giggles, getting back "hehe (c) Daemon" replies. I had to claim 2 investigations. I had no excuse to not investigate at least one of remaining mafias: UnSaFe and happy. Likewise, I had no excuse to waste my NTA to investigate Dervun. Investigating valli or Winter was also questionable, they were credible. I already investigated pizlo before. Investigating Skuggi was not a good choice either, but it seemed to be better than investigating either of Devun, valli and Winter.

I could not claim I investigated UnSaFe and happy. If I say any of them is mafia they will get lynched and I see no chances to win from that point on. If I say that both of them are townies then I imply pizlo+me+UnSaFe+happy are all townies. Hence at least two of Dervun+Skuggi+valli+Winter are BBB. No one would believe it and I would get lynched myself.

Eventually I decided to say Skuggi is mafia. Even if I fail to lynch him, he'll be sure I'm mafia and he'll block me next night, which works great for BBB team. If I get at least one townie to vote against Skuggi, then happy and UnSaFe could possibly help to instant lynch him and we win. Even if no one believes Skuggi is mafia, I can try pretending to be the investigator who gets the inverse results, etc.

I say the happy is mafia too. I was considering all combinations of happy-mafia, happy-innocent, UnSaFe-mafia, UnSaFe-innocent. But happy-mafia seemed to be the best, can help him to survive slightly longer if I fail and he was more important than UnSaFe due to the manipulation role.

I went through a lot more combinations there. But yea, I made a slip in the end.

[pizlo]

You really had me going untill that slip :/ I feel bad now seeing all the work you put in. Those emails are amazing.
Also why didnt you just deny that you got any emails about my role and throw me under the bus? winter got no email so it wouldent have made you look bad.

[Gridfon]

Thanks for the game everyone and thanks Daemon for hosting it.

Very well played Dervun. When you're wondering who needs to get killed asap next game, consider Dervun.

Next time should also leave Lucky alone, feel sorry he got killed on night 2-3 in both newerth mafia games.

[Moxy]

wow igos makes a great mafia player

[Gridfon]

Also why didnt you just deny that you got any emails about my role and throw me under the bus? winter got no email so it wouldent have made you look bad.

May be that was a good option, yeap. Considering we only needed one dead townie. On the other hand that might throw just as much suspicions at me. After all I already confirmed you're innocent. If mafia still had anyone able to block your NTA in any way, they would indeed block you to discriminate you.

And I simply liked that you support me. It can be abused in so many ways.

[Daemon]

Why did winter not get an email about my NTA that night dae? was he blocked?

Chaplains, like all the healers, are magic users in this game. You sent him Frenzy, which is only working on physical skills (non-(M) roles). And as i've announced through a Tip of the day post:

Players are not informed about the effect of other NTAs being used on them unless there is a tangible effect. For instance, if Player A attacks Player B, but Player C defends him, so that the attack is unsuccesfull, Player B won’t be informed of any of the 2 skills being used on him. Or, if Player X has no NTA that night, but Player Y and Player Z both block him, Player X won’t receive any notice. But if Player P is forced by Player R to vote for Player Q, Player P will be told of this mandatory action.

... not triggering any effect on Winter means he won't be informed of this action. Informing everyone of everything that happens on them would make for gaining some very early role credibility for the townies. In fact, classic mafia games offer NO FEEDBACK whatsoever to the players (except investigations results).

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P.S. I'd like to know whether there are any complaints about this game, the way i modded it or anything related to it. Thanks.

[Skuggi]

Thanks for those posts, IgorS, very interesting.

A couple of questions:

Did metjm save me on Night 3, from Faun's fire thingy?

And Daemon, did you select players for the mafia/town, or was it done at random?

[Daemon]

Did metjm save me on Night 3, from Faun's fire thingy?

Nobody targeted you whatsoever in Night 3.

And Daemon, did you select players for the mafia/town, or was it done at random?

The only times i assign fully random roles are when i announce that in the beginning. My procedure is randomizing the roles, and making some re-balancing. After all, there are 25 people involved, and i don't wanna leave the entire fate of the game to chance.

[Skuggi]

Did metjm save me on Night 3, from Faun's fire thingy?

Nobody targeted you whatsoever in Night 3.

Oops, meant Night 2. I targeted Faun, apparently metjm targeted me and Faun used his fire shield or something to kill intruders.

[Daemon]

Quote from Faun's role:

a Flame Shield spell, which, when cast on someone, kills all of your target's night attackers;

[Gridfon]

Hakugei had a very interesting role. I wonder how much did he know by the time we killed him.

[pizlo]

Arrrg, winter told me he gave his target a potion and assured me that it seemed physical to him! That's the problem, he physically left his room and handed him a physical potion... with MAGICAL properties.

[Daemon]

Yes, i would say the potions "skill" is debatable. However, the healing staff, the resurrection, the potion effects, are all magical, and this game was based on the premises of healers (non combat units) are magic users, and fighters/melee units are physical units.

[valli]

@Daemon a.k.a The Mad One

I think everything was fine with this game. I would however next time to select the players a bit better, but you mentioned that somehow already. It doesn't mean that newbies shouldn't play at all (it was my first time playing mafia online), but I would recommend that you somehow verify that everyone understands what the goal of the game is (e.g. I still think Robin5Hood got the goal of the game). Another point I already told you through several chats, change some rules slightly, but yeah that was it, else for all was fine.

Once again I am bit sorry for sometimes causing a bit a mess and troubles.

p.s. With the role description, the baby behemoth with psycho fraction made sense in the end it seems you are not that mad as I thought you are