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Announcements => Development News => Topic started by: Daemon on September 04, 2014, 11:35:04 pm



Title: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 04, 2014, 11:35:04 pm
Savage XR 1.1 Patch Changelog

New Officer-related features
-Orders issued by both the Commander and the Officers are simultaneously displayed.
-Officer orders no longer remove the existing Commander orders and vice-versa.
-Officer orders have been given different icons and colors from the Commander's (cyan/orange).
-The minimap now displays Waypoint Flag icons in all 4 variations (red/green/orange/cyan), as per order type.
-A dedicated Officer Task panel under the (now) Commander task panel has been added ingame.
-The blank default Officer human flag has been replaced by one featuring the Savage XR icon.
-The Officer state icon and the Officer status userlist icons have been replaced with the same icon.
-The Commander automatically receives temporary Officer status, ignoring max Officers limitations.
-Upon retaking his seat, or another Commander being elected, the Resigning Comm loses Officer status.
-The Resigning Commander can issue both Officer and Commander voice commands while on the field.
-Officer status is now kept by players when joining or switching squads.

Other changes and fixes
-New floating friendly unit icon added.
-Players whose exact name is being written in the chatbox get an audible notification.
-New cheat prevention and detection methods have been implemented.
-Msg and msgcomm votes are now interrupted if any other (more meaningful :) ) vote is called.
-Automatic date checks for theme packs has been added, in case skins like for Easter or Halloween are made.
-Blank name & illegal characters name abuse fixed.
-Tower attack speed bug fixed. (As reported by Crashday)
-Inventory change exploits fixed. (As reported by jazzking)
-Attachments not removed inside shops fixed. (like sacrifice)
-Clanless players posting in public Shoutbox incorrectly showing a clan icon fixed.

Community Generated Gameplay Changes
-Two years since their creation, we've introduced the gameplay changes that the Community discussed in the Gameplay Re-Balancing (http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/board,126.0.html) forum to standard XR.
-These changes have been selected, discussed, tweaked, voted and finally approved by a hardcore think-tank of Newerth Admins, over month-long debates.
-The 2 new units present in Evolution (the Mech and the Glider) are NOT included in this update. In the near future, following public feedback, their gameplay features will be redesigned and subjected to the same Community scrutiny that produced the other widely accepted gameplay changes.
-The full list of changes that were first implemented in the Evolution sandbox mod when XR 1.0 was launched, and now they made it to standard XR, can be found here (http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,14982.0.html).

Even after discussions spanning more than 180.000 views and more than 1000 replies, the changes above ARE SUBJECTED TO FURTHER TWEAKING pending community feedback! Nothing is really ever final with Savage, so do not panic and enjoy the game :). After a while, without anything new added to the table, any game becomes dull, right?

_______________________________________________________________________________

Note to MacOS users: Like always, you will have to wait a little longer than the rest of the world. Hopefully it will only be a matter of hours. Thank you!

Most, if not everything (good) of the above was made possible through Clemens' efforts. The bad ones are on me :).

[edit]IF there are requests or complaints, like for instance regarding the new Friendly icon that replaced the old, low res one, please post your feedback in a readable fashion instead of hating ingame, where we can't read :). Thanks.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Ophelia on September 05, 2014, 01:06:51 am
I don't know if this is really a 'bug' ... Or whatever, but I #hashtag my name a lot....


I am unable to use #1/#2/#3 or so on as a name.

 - I can hashtag other names/symbols - that start with #

- but it will shuffle my name to '#69' if I type in "/name #3" or any other number instead of 3.


I really can't explain it - as I am terrible at this,
but just login the game and type "/name #3"
and you'll see what I'm talking about.



Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: eLeMenT on September 05, 2014, 02:06:30 am
Great stuff Daemon.

I, and others, really appreciate the work you guys have been doing!  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: shuN on September 05, 2014, 03:55:13 am
Gj daemon and clemens.

Gj Newerth faithfuls.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 05, 2014, 07:28:43 am
Nice work, can't wait to give the offi updates a shot.

Ang: ref and callvote commands targeted to players can use their #client_num instead of their name. That is why you can't call yourself #3, since we couldn't tell you apart from player #3!

EDIT: Wow those balance changes, way bigger stuff than I expected. Only thing I'm not enthusaistic about is balli sprint. Are they be able to turn faster?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Ophelia on September 05, 2014, 12:06:04 pm
Ang: ref and callvote commands targeted to players can use their #client_num instead of their name. That is why you can't call yourself #3, since we couldn't tell you apart from player #3!


Oh no kidding!? I never knew that - (Yeah never bothered looking into clients and such as I don't make a note to kick/mute anyone, Lol. ) Thanks Jazz! I guess I'll #Six it out!  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Silent Killer on September 05, 2014, 03:36:52 pm
Great job!

But what about clan management issues?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 05, 2014, 05:23:24 pm
But what about clan management issues?
Groent said he'd fix it.
Ask him about the progress.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Zackorrigan on September 05, 2014, 07:33:52 pm
thanks you really much for all your addings about officer's order :)
thanks to all the dev team for your job:)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: drk on September 05, 2014, 09:36:28 pm
Thank all of you that you are spending your own time doing all these things and keeping this game alive  :mrgreen:


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: OldUttar on September 06, 2014, 12:17:12 am
Very cool. Very appreciative of the time and effort you guys put into this. I keep hoping that eventually Savage will find a new influx of players and interest and that we can actually point to some new development (even if only ever once in a while) might help with that.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 06, 2014, 01:12:43 am
Windows and Linux XR1.1 patch is out!

Report any bugs as soon as you can, please.

Mac still has to wait; it's scheduled to happen within the next days (hopefully already tomorrow).


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: bandit on September 06, 2014, 01:58:43 am
Nice update. One thing i would like to see fixed is people being able to multi vote.
Disconnect reconnect vote Disconnect reconnect vote etc etc.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: eLeMenT on September 06, 2014, 03:36:04 am
First impression:

- I personally don't really like the savage helmet used as offi flag replacement (especially in the scoreboard).
- The square that is shown when someone is targeted could potentially get in the way of someone coiling or temping at long range.

Otherwise, like previously mentioned, I appreciate everything you guys did  8-)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Nightmare on September 06, 2014, 05:31:00 am
Looks like a good patch. Only thing I don't agree with are balli sprint and behe hit causing demo to explode. Humans don't need buffs tbh.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 06, 2014, 06:04:54 am
- I personally don't really like the savage helmet used as offi flag replacement (especially in the scoreboard).
- The square that is shown when someone is targeted could potentially get in the way of someone coiling or temping at long range.

Beautiful or not, i had to put something "consistent" on all fronts: flag, userlist icon, state icon and especially the new officer task panel, which clearly indicates what's what.

Looks like a good patch. Only thing I don't agree with are balli sprint and behe hit causing demo to explode. Humans don't need buffs tbh.

I don't agree with half of them :). I do agree with players being discouraged from behecamping, especially at flag. That was a leitmotif that came up repeatedly.

We will discuss 2nd generation changes though. We now need to re-re-balance, after some testing.

Latest stats on Groen's for the last 3 years.

RACE.......WINS....Average Time
beast.......8768.....20.72 min
draw........2247.....36.69 min
human.....6382.....22.24 min

Beasts win 37% more games than humans. What we need to focus on is getting rid of those couple thousands of draws... what's the point of playing a game that never ends?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: H3027 on September 06, 2014, 07:19:41 am
It's ridiculous how people are complaining about balancing details while they are okay with respawntimes being halfed from default 30 to 15 seconds on public servers, giving a HUGE boost to the team with better mobility (especially when high gold and xp make mobility even more effective and allow you to constantly go to battle without waiting). The dev team could remove behemoths and flux all together from the game, and even that would affect the balance less than these basic server settings do.

Oh, so you want the game to be balanced on 15 seconds respawntime, high gold and xp? Well, that's nothing a 10 year old community would want to go through. You'd have to change everything from max HP, items to weapon damage.

I've never seen anyone complaining about these big things, so why are you complaining at all? :mrgreen:


With default settings on gold, xp and respawn times you'll have less draws, as the weaker team can get gold starved and the stronger team will eventally manage to finish the game. There will be less stalemates either with Beasts fighting in front of the Human base for hours, as gold and respawntimes are lower, allowing the team with less mobility to move out of their base. You'll have less powermining and a nice, diverse early game, making Savage less dull. Sacrushes won't always work as you can't respawn 2-5 seconds after you hit the enemy base, instead you'll have to sit 17-20 seconds longer in the loadout - enough time for humans to actually deal damage to the sub instead of being busy shooting the never ending wave of saccers, that have enough xp to do 5 leaps and enough gold to buy frenzy and sac all the time. And you'll also have less draws for the reason of sac rushs being less powerful: going for shield first and wasting all redstone on towering up the base won't be necessary, human commanders can use different tactics and be more offensive - which is also more fun for the Beast team that gets rewarded for using good tactics as well and won't have to fight a wall of towers once they advanced to the human base.

But hey, since you don't like the default settings, enjoy your dull, imbalanced pubs!

I'm looking forward to the NSL6 games :)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Moxy on September 06, 2014, 08:53:36 am
amen sister


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: impulse on September 06, 2014, 02:18:30 pm
Flux stamina drain and easy kills with ballista is still lame regardless of these settings. Maybe siege camping could be fixed or improved with less gold and higher respawn timers.

A lot of it seems map dependent as maps have such a variety of gold camps and geometry that encourage rushing. Maps have been virtually unplayed recently on pub servers.  I hate the gold creep farming mechanic but I can't think of a better alternative.

Maybe re tweak the game so that gold is more individual based? A quick thought would be lower the team gold pool significantly and make towers cheaper gold wise. Or limit how much people can take from the global pool?

Make respawn time based on experience levels and not on a global clock? The experience settings and rate would need to be tweaked of course, also beasts need some exceptions since they have sac but and no relocater. I think 30 seconds is too long in the early game since each second can be so crucial in defending a rush.



Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 06, 2014, 03:27:51 pm
There will be less gold available to siege whores. As the changes say, siege units killing foot units will not produce gold at all. Shooting buildings will return twice as.much gold as before.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 06, 2014, 04:06:52 pm
Server hotfix patch is out.

Content hotfix patch is out as well.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Bobbe on September 06, 2014, 04:23:38 pm
It's interesting to see balance changes still being made. Since I was told to post my suggestions and noticed that I'm actually not alone in my beliefs (H3027 pretty much nailed it), I'll take the opportunity to list the best of my suggestions here:

- behemoths can no longer spin while attacking
- relocater requires an additional ~3 seconds to activate (triggering a visual charging animation for the enemy to see) (optional: this only applies for an interval of ~5 seconds after taking damage)
- increased respawn times (and/or adapt sacrifice strength to the tier of the unit using it)
- flux changed into tier 3 (or balanced to match repeater-level)
- reduced recources mined per hit by nomads/scavengers from 5 to 1
- remove/drastically decrease exp gained from mining and building; increase exp gained from hitting enemy buildings with melee
- critters now act like gerkats, attacking anyone who hurts their brethren in the vicinity (this makes monkits harder to kill than oschores); make them correctly switch targets to the unit attacking them and also prevent them from chasing units that are out of range all over the map

Out of the sheer number of balance changes I came up with until now, I chose these as the most powerful, effective and easy-to-implement combination that would cover the most of the balancing wishes from my side as far as the flow of the game is concerned.
Some of these might require thorough explanation but if you read H3027's post you'll see where I'm coming from.

Here's two more ideas (these are really just ideas, not suggestions) that I consider worth mentioning
- ranged weapon damage against siege units decreased; melee damage against siege units increased (making sieges easier to protect)
- make ballista shots pierce behemoths like coil and hit the sub lair behind them

Hope some of this helps to come up with new ideas. Cheers.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 06, 2014, 04:25:50 pm
It's interesting to see balance changes still being made. Since I was told to post my suggestions and noticed that I'm actually not alone in my beliefs (H3027 pretty much nailed it), I'll take the opportunity to list the best of my suggestions here:

You belong here: Re-balancing Suggestions (http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/board,126.0.html)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: APirateHat on September 06, 2014, 05:12:04 pm
I'll have some time with this update and then I'll see how I like it. Agree that the new officers icon is ugly though.

It's easy to make balance suggestions and think they're good but you won't know how they are until they're tested long enough with different maps and player amount. Savage will also never be truly balanced no matter how many times you change it.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: H3027 on September 06, 2014, 05:25:33 pm
The helmet officer icon is certainly better than no icon as it was since XR 1.0.

Though I'd suggest to use the old sun officer icon from pre XR 1.0 versions (that looks best) as default and use the helmet for the squad officer icon instead.

Another thing I dislike is the beast armor that is gray since 1.0. It looks much better in brown, contrasting the gray beast unit.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: eLeMenT on September 06, 2014, 05:34:19 pm
It's interesting to see balance changes still being made. Since I was told to post my suggestions and noticed that I'm actually not alone in my beliefs (H3027 pretty much nailed it), I'll take the opportunity to list the best of my suggestions here:

- behemoths can no longer spin while attacking
- relocater requires an additional ~3 seconds to activate (triggering a visual charging animation for the enemy to see) (optional: this only applies for an interval of ~5 seconds after taking damage)
- increased respawn times (and/or adapt sacrifice strength to the tier of the unit using it)
- flux changed into tier 3 (or balanced to match repeater-level)
- reduced recources mined per hit by nomads/scavengers from 5 to 1
- remove/drastically decrease exp gained from mining and building; increase exp gained from hitting enemy buildings with melee
- critters made hostile, attacking units in a range of ~3m radius (this makes monkits harder to kill than oschores); make them correctly switch targets to the unit attacking them and also prevent them from chasing units that are out of range all over the map

Out of the sheer number of balance changes I came up with until now, I chose these as the most powerful, effective and easy-to-implement combination that would cover the most of the balancing wishes from my side as far as the flow of the game is concerned.
Some of these might require thorough explanation but if you read H3027's post you'll see where I'm coming from.

Here's two more ideas (these are really just ideas, not suggestions) that I consider worth mentioning
- ranged weapon damage against siege units decreased; melee damage against siege units increased (making sieges easier to protect)
- make ballista shots pierce behemoths like coil and hit the sub lair behind them

Hope some of this helps to come up with new ideas. Cheers.


My hat goes off to you for thinking of the most creative load of crap suggestions! Some are good though, 3 and 6 are actually proper suggestions.

If you increase the reloc timer even more and couldn't move while relocating, then maybe humans could use the buffs you've been suggesting. But then you'd be creating a whole different game.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: d00m on September 06, 2014, 07:11:14 pm
beasts get some buffs too... seems fair.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 06, 2014, 07:46:19 pm
Well done, some very nice features and such.

But every major gameplay change should be made optional (whether it be on a per-change basis or one big "enable the new 1.1 features" toggle). The reason for this is that such a large change should be trialed by the users who will play with it, and if they don't like it, it should be disabled.

Maybe everyone will like the changes and I will leave them on, but a choice must be there. It is not right to forcefully add such huge alterations, meaning if we decide we preferred the old game, we have to roll back to an unsupported version.

For example, stamina changes and such make an insanely huge difference which players may or may not like. Depending on what they decide, it should be enabled or disabled, not depending on what you and some forum regulars want.

Make it optional.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 06, 2014, 07:52:51 pm
As I said, it was optional (Evolution) for more than at least a year.
People were already able to test it (and did once in a while - I don't have the exact numbers), and people already gave feedback to it. These changes came from suggestions from the community, then said community commented on it, and now the community gets it in the game.

The process you described already happened.

Now, the changes are implemented, and people can test them again, as well as give feedback, again.
As Daemon said here:
Even after discussions spanning more than 180.000 views and more than 1000 replies, the changes above ARE SUBJECTED TO FURTHER TWEAKING pending community feedback! Nothing is really ever final with Savage, so do not panic and enjoy the game :).
So please test stuff for a while, and then give appropriate feedback to revisit certain features and changes.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: H3027 on September 06, 2014, 07:58:37 pm
I agree with JMZ.

However, I'd wait with making it optional for at least 2 weeks. Otherwise people/admins will just disable it from the very begin and can hence lazily avoid contributing to the improvement of those new changes, by not even bothering testing them at all. With the consequence that it will take unnecessary longer to get feedback and to get the changes adjusted and optimized to what the community wants.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 06, 2014, 08:18:34 pm
That's what I just said, Tirza.

Test it, then post feedback to motivate adjustments.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 06, 2014, 08:26:53 pm
As I said, it was optional (Evolution) for more than at least a year.
People were already able to test it (and did once in a while - I don't have the exact numbers), and people already gave feedback to it. These changes came from suggestions from the community, then said community commented on it, and now the community gets it in the game.

The process you described already happened.

Now, the changes are implemented, and people can test them again, as well as give feedback, again.
As Daemon said here:
Even after discussions spanning more than 180.000 views and more than 1000 replies, the changes above ARE SUBJECTED TO FURTHER TWEAKING pending community feedback! Nothing is really ever final with Savage, so do not panic and enjoy the game :).
So please test stuff for a while, and then give appropriate feedback to revisit certain features and changes.

It shouldn't be a global choice made by the devs (with community input). It should be a toggle which the server admins can choose to enable or disable, based on *their players' opinions*. You may well have got good feedback and people may well want this, but at the end of the day it should be their choice and not yours. If they one day want to switch back to the normal gameplay, it should be possible with a config alteration.

I understand you did all of this acceptance stuff through the evo mod, but thats exactly what it should really be, a mod. Which can be enabled by default or disabled (rather than being voted). This way, if the players like it, they  can have it, otherwise we turn (major changes) off.

The point here is, it is not a global choice to be made by you. It is a choice which should be made by the server admins and their particular communities. Even better, each individual change should be possible to be rolled back just like we can change stamina, etc.

For example, what if everyone decides they don't want shaman's extra swing (just an example, most won't mind that change)? We should be able to just go in the config and disable it, NOT post on here, get "community opinions" and change it in the next update. These are ALL server configuration, none should be hardcoded.

It is very important this be possible.

P.S. i dont mind enabling it and likely will, when i have the choice. it won't be pushed aside like evo mod was (at times).


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 06, 2014, 08:32:32 pm
It should be a toggle which the server admins can choose to enable or disable
No thank you.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 06, 2014, 08:34:35 pm
Everyone's acting like we even have enough players for a diversity of gameplay through server choice.

The fragmentation of server settings (between the groentjuh's) and rulesets (between us and eu) is its own problem because the devs cannot make updates targeted to a unified Savage experience. More severe imo is that pubs and cws are so different.

It would be fine to give server admins choices if there was always another server you can join, but there isn't.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 06, 2014, 08:42:55 pm
Most of the changes should be configurable anyhow, as everything has been since the day the game was released. It doesn't make much sense to hardcode such changes which are obviously just more config.

Me and groentjuh are both open to trying all the new features, but if the players decide they dont want some parts of it, we should be able to disable those parts. It is quite simple.

Also just to be clear, i am talking about things such as stamina changes, shaman melee, lista changes, etc. Anything which affects "physics" or objects. Things like the marking and such, they can be enabled by default, i dont mind as they dont alter gameplay as much.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 06, 2014, 08:44:33 pm
Me and groentjuh are both open to trying all the new features
This is not true.
Server admins have disabled new features as soon as they were released, thus making testing and feedback gathering impossible.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 06, 2014, 08:46:24 pm
Because you left a nice segfault in there.

My server was down for 2-3 hours because of that, so thanks for fixing it but thats the reason we don't have 1.1 right now (and the fact that it'd be nice to disable some of the changes if needed).


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 06, 2014, 09:04:36 pm
Because you left a nice segfault in there.
I'm talking about many of the past patches, not this one.

And the only way to make sure it works on servers full-scale, is to test it on servers full-scale.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 06, 2014, 09:11:36 pm
I never disabled anything manually, I left it on autoupdate for a long time and didn't change the config at all. If anything was disabled by default, you disabled it.

Anyhow, the issue still remains that gameplay-changing features need to have a cvar each just like all the current features. It would also be nice to have the option to disable outposts and such, any new structures as they change gameplay drastically also.

I'm not saying I will disable them, the community will decide that.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: APirateHat on September 06, 2014, 10:01:21 pm
Some initial thoughts about the dual marking.

While I think it's cool and a nice addition it isnt well implemented when you think about new players. The orders of the commander are the most important ones but how whould a newbie know it's that flag on the mininap he should follow? I can see it being pretty confusing. Possible solution: smaller size of the officer minimap icon.

Another thing that confused me as well was the change on the colour on the minimap icon to red when it's about attacking something. This could perhaps be good if there wasnt the dual marking but now there are four different colours that you have tokeep track of. The minimap should be easy to read at a glance but the addition of several colours makes it confusing. One(two if you count offi) colour is actually enough as the bar at the top tells you what you need to do.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 06, 2014, 10:19:42 pm
@APH: So you'd rather not know what the order is just by 'glancing' at the minimap, but wondering what that single green flag is instead. Okay... So you think that what will confuse the new players is orders having a proper color, not the overbuffed vets farming them. Okay...

@JmZ:
- New vote type facilitating playing any mod on any server on any time: "/callvote mod mod_name". This will simply load the specified mod on the map currently loaded (if it doesn't use special maps). This is greatly helping with the next entry.

- The gameplay changes discussed in the Re-Balancing Suggestions forum are carefully analyzed and tweaked by a group of Newerth admins, and implemented in a sandbox-type mod, called "Evolution". Players will be able to load it at anytime and experience the new changes and then, community input is welcome before transplanting them to mainstream Savage servers. Last discussed suggestion was S18. These are the results, which don't automatically exclude the suggestions not present here, in view of a holistic approach to re-balancing:

Our intentions were announced 3 years ago (Sept. 2nd 2011). They were reiterated 2 years ago when XR 1.0 was launched (Sept. 17th 2012). While you were trying out hax, the community complained about the game being stale and siege whoring ruining the game while i was fighting everyone that cried "REBALANCE!". When that subject began hijacking every single thread, we created the Re-Balancing forum section. Now THAT is Community at work. If you think you represent the Community better than dozens of people which contributed to the discussions producing 1000+ posts and 180.000+ views, then kudos to you.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Ophelia on September 06, 2014, 11:10:04 pm
When COMMANDER (red) targets someone - it remains until he targets something else, is this how it should be? Someone is more or less perma-targeted on leet right now. very lol. :x


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 06, 2014, 11:15:12 pm
It is just like before - only now officers' orders don't replace comm orders. A target that was marked stays so, like before, until it is killed or a new order is issued - this time, comm's only. Hopefully people will be able to track incoming sacwave now that a random offi can't remove the tag by targeting a monkit :P.

[edit]

WAT

'sacwave' is a valid word for my browser spellchecker.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 06, 2014, 11:18:50 pm
When COMMANDER (red) targets someone - it remains until he targets something else, is this how it should be? Someone is more or less perma-targeted on leet right now. very lol. :x
Did the target die?
Is the server updated?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Ophelia on September 06, 2014, 11:25:00 pm
When COMMANDER (red) targets someone - it remains until he targets something else, is this how it should be? Someone is more or less perma-targeted on leet right now. very lol. :x
Did the target die?
Is the server updated?


Yes 5x
No. (Leet, lol)


Edit: I was on t2 if that matters?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 06, 2014, 11:28:13 pm
I understand these features went through a thorough review, and most of them are quite nice.

But the point is, if the players one day decide they dont want lista to sprint for example, we should be able to simply disable it through config like anything else (or shaman swing too for example). We shouldn't have to come here with a bunch of users to get you to update the strangely hard coded configuration.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 06, 2014, 11:46:14 pm
Did the target die?
Is the server updated?
Yes 5x
No. (Leet, lol)
There's the reason.
Old servers don't know that there are two separate marks.

We shouldn't have to come here with a bunch of users to get you to update the strangely hard coded configuration.
Yes you should have to.
That's what the people that suggested changes had to do.
And that's what people that gave positive and negative feedback had to do.

What makes you think you're an exception above everyone else?

to get you to update the strangely hard coded configuration
Everything you've complained about (Mainly outposts?) can actually be disabled server-side.
And I've told you this already.

In fact, if disabling it server-side is not enough for you, you can even make a client patch for your "bunch of users" to permanently disable it for them.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Ophelia on September 06, 2014, 11:52:40 pm
Did the target die?
Is the server updated?
Yes 5x
No. (Leet, lol)
There's the reason.
Old servers don't know that there are two separate marks.



I know the other (Not Leet) USA server will not be updated till at least Monday
 - so there is no way to effectively test this patch unless servers comply? 



+ One more thing I noticed - The cross hair for targeted (both offy/commander)
- is there a way to adjust it by distance? The SIZE of it is what I am specifically talking about.

(Again unsure if this is a server thing, as I am really not good w/ this)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 12:00:22 am
Yes, they can be disabled but not through the regular config and you forgot to add the appropriate cvars.

All changes to gameplay should be configurable by the server admin as it is not a globally applied decision. Some servers may want a different configuration from others. Things such as lista stamina and shaman melee, etc, should be configurable through the normal config files, just like everything else is (like mining anims are).

If you just add the cvars which should already exist, then that'll be great, i'd be happy to try it out knowing i can disable or change some features if it turns out people dont like them.

It is not right to have to come here for a change, it belongs in config like everything else. You shouldn't be deciding these things, you should offer the features and allow them to be configured (altered or disabled completely).

Do remember, I am only talking about gameplay changes such as stamina, melee, and additional buildings. Things like the marking do not alter gameplay drastically so don't necessarily need config.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 07, 2014, 12:26:37 am
- so there is no way to effectively test this patch unless servers comply?
Depends on what part of the patch.
Acting officer, duo-marking, and voting needs an updated server.
A few fixes do, too.
But anything entirely client-side can be tested just fine.

I've noted all reports regardless if server is updated or not.
I accept all reports.
And constantly check their validity and potential fixes.

+ One more thing I noticed - The cross hair for targeted (both offy/commander)
- is there a way to adjust it by distance? The SIZE of it is what I am specifically talking about.
This is a client-side thing, so you won't need an updated server.
There is no simple way to do it; but if enough people want something like this done, I/Daemon will consider a way to make it possible/happen.
If I don't rage quit before.



Yes, they can be disabled but not through the regular config and you forgot to add the appropriate cvars.
The script files are open to all, and even more so for servers.
They are meant to be edited accordingly.
You don't even have to edit the files themselves, you can write the changes into your server configs.
It is appropriate; not everything needs to be handled by cvars.
In fact, the current sheer amount of cvars available is often the reason why certain bugs occur.

All changes to gameplay should be configurable by the server admin as it is not a globally applied decision. Some servers may want a different configuration from others.
They can. I keep telling you that. Read above.

Things such as lista stamina and shaman melee, etc, should be configurable through the normal config files
Those things have absolutely nothing to do with hardcode or cvars.
Those things are entirely managed by the script files I keep talking about.
They are configurable through the normal config (and object) files. Read above.

If you just add the cvars which should already exist, then that'll be great, i'd be happy to try it out knowing i can disable or change some features if it turns out people dont like them.
Your above examples are unrelated to valid cvars.
They are .objects.
For more info, read above.

It is not right to have to come here for a change, it belongs in config like everything else. You shouldn't be deciding these things, you should offer the features and allow them to be configured (altered or disabled completely).
They are configurable. Read above.
Anything not configurable is a deep-seated thing that server admins have no right nor responsibility to affect.

Do remember, I am only talking about gameplay changes such as stamina, melee, and additional buildings. Things like the marking do not alter gameplay drastically so don't necessarily need config.
Stamina, shaman melee and additional buildings are configurable. Read above.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 07, 2014, 03:02:59 am
Server admins should be able to implement any game whatsoever in any other game, even better by changing a couple of cvars. They are the server admins, kings of gameplay. Bejeweled in CounterStrike? Mario Paint in Minecraft? Anything less is a needless restriction.

(yes yes continuum fallacy  :evil:)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Ophelia on September 07, 2014, 04:33:07 am
If I don't rage quit before.

(https://3beautifulbamfs.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/tumblr_ldgj3dd0m41qab1u4o1_400.gif?w=529)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: APirateHat on September 07, 2014, 09:03:22 am
@APH: So you'd rather not know what the order is just by 'glancing' at the minimap, but wondering what that single green flag is instead. Okay... So you think that what will confuse the new players is orders having a proper color, not the overbuffed vets farming them. Okay...

Just first impressions from me but this is about basic game design, having an interface that is easily understood without needing an explanation. Before this update there could only be one flag and you knew where to go, now there can be two and there are more colours as well. This is also not only about newbies as it confused me as well. All of this might not matter though as I think only me got this opinion but I like to look at possible downsides.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: StaR$cReaM on September 07, 2014, 11:08:52 am
I really appreciate ur hard work but I saw it and I dont like it.
To be honest I play savage for almost 10 years and never get enough of it. But now..I played for few minutes only and already feel that savage is no longer the same game I used to like.
The mix between the deaf' mod and the evo' its just wrong!


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 07, 2014, 11:10:03 am
To be honest I play savage for almost 10 years and never get enough of it. But now..I played for few minutes only and already feel that savage is no longer the same game I used to like.
It changed over the years over and over again.

Which addition or change exactly is the problem?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: StaR$cReaM on September 07, 2014, 11:24:30 am
To be honest I play savage for almost 10 years and never get enough of it. But now..I played for few minutes only and already feel that savage is no longer the same game I used to like.
It changed over the years over and over again.

Which addition or change exactly is the problem?

Well As comm' every time I get out its give me the officer flag with the annoying voice "lead with honnor" and "nevermind". it himself need to be removed.
The new icon flags.
the new icon above the team players instead the arrows. its just to big and too distracting.

I don't think you need to change the way of the game. with all those mods. I mean most of the players in savage are old players that liked the game just the way it is.
If you want to change something change the character image. The weapons..It will make the diffrent and will give motivation to play.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 07, 2014, 11:36:56 am
Well As comm' every time I get out its give me the officer flag with the annoying voice "lead with honnor" and "nevermind". it himself need to be removed.
That's how it is when you are promoted or demoted as officer.
That's already the case if a normal officer takes commander.
The voice is not new. :roll:
The only difference is that when a commander resigns, he gets officer so he can continue giving orders.
Is that really a problem?

The new icon flags.
the new icon above the team players instead the arrows. its just to big and too distracting.
Noted. Thank you for the report.
Any suggestions as to what to change about them?

I don't think you need to change the way of the game. with all those mods. I mean most of the players in savage are old players that liked the game just the way it is.
If you want to change something change the character image. The weapons..It will make the diffrent and will give motivation to play.
Check the re-balancing forum. Old players wanted changes.
Even Shagroth wants change nowadays.
Savage is a stagnant game; change was wished for and the changes are so subtle that most people didn't even notice when they tested them.

So test the changes for a bit and post feedback to which Evo stuff needs further adjusting or removing.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 12:10:17 pm
If every single feature you've added which affects gameplay can be configured, do go ahead and explain how, if possible.

It would also be nice to have a definitive changelog, rather than some links to multiple related threads. As not all evo mod changes were included, for example.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 07, 2014, 12:26:18 pm
If every single feature you've added which affects gameplay can be configured, do go ahead and explain how, if possible.
Every one you mentioned definitely can.
game/script/standard/objects/ and game/script/standard/objects/scripts
(As if you didn't know that.)
game/script/standard/configs/main.cfg a bit.
game/script/standard/XR.objlist as well, but be careful with that.

It would also be nice to have a definitive changelog, rather than some links to multiple related threads. As not all evo mod changes were included, for example.
Should be all except the new units.
If any are missing, it's a bug, so please report.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 12:28:36 pm
It isn't necessarily for me but rather so others looking for such a file location can find it.

Thanks, ill take a look at them.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 07, 2014, 12:40:57 pm
Clients shouldn't change it unless they know what they're doing.
(And anyone capable of changing things should already know how by visiting the modding section.)

If you change things significantly, as I said before, I recommend giving your "bunch of users" an own client patch for syncing.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 04:01:39 pm
As I said many times, I don't mind the changes. I just wanted to make sure I was able to roll back individual changes if needed, depending on what the actual in-game community thinks after trying it out.

Luckily almost all of it is just a change to the default values of object settings, so can be altered easily.



Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 07, 2014, 04:07:06 pm
Yep, you can make your own mod like N4B did.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Feathers on September 07, 2014, 04:10:44 pm
The new icon flags.
the new icon above the team players instead the arrows. its just to big and too distracting.
Noted. Thank you for the report.
Any suggestions as to what to change about them?

Couldn't you make a tick box thing in the options? If you want it leave it on, it needs to be ticked(default). If it's annoying you untick it.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 04:22:34 pm
Dunno if this exists, but need a cvar to disable the BLOOP when your name is mentioned.

Also, you forgot to mention summs and behes now regen health? I didn't see it in the list :D

It would also appear the mech shield object got included in standard somehow but should be in the evo dir? Doesn't appear to affect anything but figured I'd mention it.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Haika on September 07, 2014, 04:31:40 pm
The new icon flags.
the new icon above the team players instead the arrows. its just to big and too distracting.
Noted. Thank you for the report.
Any suggestions as to what to change about them?

Couldn't you make a tick box thing in the options? If you want it leave it on, it needs to be ticked(default). If it's annoying you untick it.

imo it is not too big, ppl r just used to something else :P maybe a resize so ppl have a better time adjusting to the changes.
(it looks like some sort of anti-virus-program-icon :D)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 07, 2014, 04:44:27 pm
Can you leave in the bloop? Individual players can turn it off and I personally like it. It's probably not a server thing anyway, just the client scanning the chat.

Oh also the ally icon is an improvement if you ask me, makes game look newer.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: bot on September 07, 2014, 04:52:14 pm
I had to uninstall savage and download it again. The autoupdater did his job and downloaded the new files.
If i join now groens server i cant join any team cuz it says that i need the savage xr 1.0 version.

???

im on mac if it matters

edit: Did a new instalation(with the autoupdate) for the 4th time and now i even cant join the server. (Human_outpost) is missing...

?????????????????????????????????????????????????


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 05:47:49 pm
Can you leave in the bloop? Individual players can turn it off and I personally like it. It's probably not a server thing anyway, just the client scanning the chat.

Oh also the ally icon is an improvement if you ask me, makes game look newer.

yes i meant clientside, i didnt yet find an option to turn it off. sorry if theres already one


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: H3027 on September 07, 2014, 06:08:36 pm
Balancing suggestion concerning Chaplins:
http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,12519.msg192478.html#msg192478


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 06:29:37 pm
ok here's a short list of thoughs and basic positive/negative when i asked the following people in-game (and more):
- Stringer
- Tirza
- Shagroth
- Djinghis
- Azura
- Emerica
- aidz
- and a few more

(Note not all these people agreed but heres the general overview)

Healing buildings/units/items

- Generally positive feedback
- Quite a few believed the researchtime shouldn't be reduced but the cost should
- Not many people thought the requirement (arsenal/nexus) should be removed

Rupture

- Positive feedback, no problems

Mana stone

- Negative feedback
- Very few people think it should be a throwable item and would rather just keep it as it was
- This being because it doesn't really provide any benefit, it complicates a simple item

Sensor

- Positive feedback, no real issues

Sprint

- Negative feedback
- Nobody I talked to believed sprint needed changing, they'd rather have it as before (p_staminadepletespeed)

Shaman melee

- Negative feedback
- Nobody really liked this change, of who i talked to

Potion mana regen

- Mixed feedback
- People weren't too bothered about this but thought it should regen at a slow rate to prevent "infinite healers"

Chap/Shaman extra item

- Mixed feedback
- Heavily negative feedback on the fact you can combine shaman with mana to become some sort of "god shaman"
- Neutral to positive feedback on any other item, but not really interested in this change so much

Drops

- Positive feedback, mostly
- Some people strongly dislike this, as it heavily alters gameplay in terms of stamina management. But most don't mind it

Behe flag caps

- Positive feedback, helps avoid behe spawns

Behe slowdown

- Positive feedback

Ballista sprint

- Insanely negative feedback, nobody i asked liked this change

Siege gold multiplier

- Positive feedback

Summary

I wrote this and gathered these opinions from 10-15 people because i will be updating my server soon and wanted to know which changes are the ones players may not want. Also to provide you with feedback which isn't just my own opinion.

Hopefully you take it into account, this is the thoughts of many in-game actual players, a few of whom don't use this forum.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Shagroth on September 07, 2014, 06:42:46 pm
i only talked about mana crystal on shaman being op, rest is great :>

thanks for ze patch!


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 06:44:50 pm
Yeah i know, thats why i tried to make sure it was understood not everyone agreed across the board :)

But as a general overview those are the opinions i got.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 07, 2014, 06:45:16 pm
@Tirza: I thought we've already discussed the Chaplains, men of faith, being mobile missile depots :). Oh well...

@JmZ: besides being obvious that your list mostly if not only shows your personal, opinions, they're even incoherent. Why would anyone say, for instance, that the new mana stone "is complicated" when they don't even have to use it (throw it), just keep it in their inv if they want it... But if you think that receiving 45% more mana from the same item or giving it to a friend like a summ killing shield "is not a benefit" then OK :).

Also, as you already know and act accordingly, people are resistant to change, even if it's for their own good. Most of that comes from lack of information aka not knowing. They don't know how to use everything to their advantage yet. Give them time to learn and there won't be any reason to revert the changes.

@Everyone not liking the new friendly icon. I'm gonna put the 8x8px old one back so you can see how bad it sucks, how big it is and how it is over everything like buildings and everything, just like this one and just how it always was :).  


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 06:51:06 pm
I specifically went out of my way to ask many people for their opinions such that you couldn't possibly discard my post as "personal".

The list is not my personal opinion, it is the thoughts of many players.

You asked for feedback, you got it, from 10+ active players.

Also, implement a cvar to disable shaman's extra swing, just like you did for the "new" mining animations.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: H3027 on September 07, 2014, 06:56:00 pm
- Ballista sprint is okay, but it shouldn't allow you to turn faster

- The new outposts are a nice to have, they don't alter the gameplay much. Most of the time you'd rather pick a regular outpost.

- Sprint changes are great. The reason why people dislike them is because they have no clue why they were made.

There's a heavy imbalance between leaping and sprinting in terms of stamina consumption. Beast players rarely use sprint for fine adjustments of positioning because it consums so much stamina that each time you use sprint you have one or two leaps less available. On servers without uphill leaps that discrepancy is even more extreme: while an experienced beast player would use sprint to get uphills on the same height level as the enemy, it eats so much stam that you'll lack it later to use it for leaps.
As for humans it's good to be able to use stamina a bit more efficiently against bouncing beasts. For one jump attack plus sprint to catch someone bouncing off blocks you had to use around 70% of your stamina, which is beyond any proportionality. All that is fixed now. Since the average player never uses the sprint button as a beast anyway and as a human he is constantly out of stamina as well, it makes not much of a difference.

- Shaman melee has too high DPS against ballistas/catas with the second swing.

- Making mana consumable is the consequence for making shamans able to carry them, otherwise they would be OP. I like the change also for regular fighters as most of the time you'll be able to use your ranged weapon more efficiently without having to waste heal buffs. And you can give mana to team mates, which adds depth to the game.

- Drops are okay. They don't alter anything dramatically, which also makes them kind of useless. You get stamina for like 1 leap, while you often have to use one leap to catch the drop in the heat of battle, otherwise you'll receive too much damage. And if there's no enemy to damage you, why would you even go for a stamina drop anyway? There's enough time to regenerate over time. Make stamina drops refill more stam (like 70%).


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 07, 2014, 06:57:10 pm
I specifically went out of my way to ask many people for their opinions such that you couldn't possibly discard my post as "personal".

The list is not my personal opinion, it is the thoughts of many players.

Why would anyone say, for instance, that the new mana stone "is complicated" when they don't even have to use it (throw it), just keep it in their inv if they want it... But if you think that receiving 45% more mana from the same item or giving it to a friend like a summ killing shield "is not a benefit" then OK :).

You should address this one though. Shag says it's OP and your list didn't. How can something even be OP if it has no benefits? :)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: H3027 on September 07, 2014, 07:00:35 pm
@Daemon: yes, but you didn't want it because it isn't realistic. Hence Healers can't build ammo depots.

But since 1.1, with the ability to carry an item of choice, it's easy to solve that differently. He doesn't need to build a depot, but can just through ammo packs at his team mates. That's not more unrealistic than the fact that he can carry any item.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 07:01:04 pm
I listed what the people I discussed the changes with said.

A couple of them stated that it seems pointless changing mana and that it should just remain a simple item you just carry. I personally don't care if you can throw it or not, like i told you, this isn't my personal opinion.

It is feedback, make use of it.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 07, 2014, 07:03:30 pm
I listed what the people I discussed the changes with said.

A couple of them stated that it seems pointless changing mana and that it should just remain a simple item you just carry. I personally don't care if you can throw it or not, like i told you, this isn't my personal opinion.

It is feedback, make use of it.

Do you think the new mana stone offers no benefits?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Groentjuh on September 07, 2014, 07:04:21 pm
Daemon, I missed you (a large part of) this day to observe the current opinion on this new patch. Both JmZ and I have spend a large part of the day (the first day they actually play with the new patch due to crashes yesterday) trying things out, spectating, making sure things at least work as they were intended etc etc.

I happened to be spectating when JmZ was asking the specs @ G&G about it. Feel free to do the same and see if it really is just JmZ saying this, or if others actually said that...


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 07:05:44 pm
I don't care if you can throw it or not.

It's pretty cool that you can do that, but it really makes no difference to me.

As I said, its not my personal opinion, it is the opinion of others (I didn't even include my own opinions when determining the positivity/negativity). The people i asked didn't seem to care for it and seemed to prefer keeping it as it was, even though it still regens as normal.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 07, 2014, 07:13:57 pm
Groen i had the vacation i am on set and paid since months. Neither did i know Mohican and DJ would be so hard to get to put the buildhosts up - they were both on holidays as well.

It's obvious that you and JmZ shall do as you wish about everything. It's not a game ran by devs, it's a game ran by server owners which are hardly the people that wanna antagonize their players in any way.

Feedback's got to be given when things settle down, not one day or 2 days after the changes hit the pubs, in the heat of the moment, especially with Savage players that have absolutely no interest in anything else other than their own individual play styles. A dev's gotta think of everyone.

What if everybody likes, say, 90% of the changes and dislikes 10%. If you round them up, statistically, every single change will have its share of haters. What do you do? Revert them so you upset everyone (because they liked 90%), or leave them and hope that they figure out the 10% they dislike are actually not that bad, since the other 90%-1 like them. It's just not EXACTLY the chages THEY like.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Groentjuh on September 07, 2014, 07:19:19 pm
Feedback's got to be given when things settle down, not one day or 2 days after the changes hit the pubs, in the heat of the moment, especially with Savage players that have absolutely no interest in anything else other than their own individual play styles. A dev's gotta think of everyone.
If it was bug-free you probably indeed wouldn't have seen me these days, sadly for all of us, I can't really say that was an options.

Good to see at least that you show how willing you are to what is at this moment being said.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 07:21:06 pm
Players will be asked again in a while, after having tried it for longer and a similar list will be created.

For now, I see these major points coming from most people (which you should certainly investigate *now*, not after playing it for a week):

- Shaman/mana combo is absurd
- Shaman melee alteration should be possible to turn off just like mining anims are
- Potion mana regen should be slow, if not already
- Lista sprint should not work for turning, rather just moving ahead if possible

Everything else may well change after players have settled in, that is true, so in a day or two we can ask again.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: H3027 on September 07, 2014, 07:30:42 pm
@JmZ: the Shaman/mana combo doesn't work since mana is consumable. If mana would regenerate over time you could heal all the time and shield constantly. But that's not the case.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 07, 2014, 07:44:09 pm
JmZ you're the only one that said anything about disabling 2nd sham swing cuz it sucks or there should be a choice... come on.

The point of many re-balance suggestions was making healers a viable tech and unit line. The chap potion mana regen boost makes them heal around the clock as well. They are still useless :).


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Groentjuh on September 07, 2014, 07:44:46 pm
@JmZ: the Shaman/mana combo doesn't work since mana is consumable. If mana would regenerate over time you could heal all the time and shield constantly. But that's not the case.
No, the mana crystal is passive, but CAN be consumed!


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 07:47:09 pm
Yes, currently shaman carrying mana *is* absurd. They regen insanely fast.

As for disabling shaman melee, I already said a few times I like it. It is a fun new change i have been using today. But there should always be a choice for the server admin to disable it if that server's players prefer the old one.

So when possible, implement some cvar just like you did for mining animations.

Thanks


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: H3027 on September 07, 2014, 07:51:56 pm
@JmZ: the Shaman/mana combo doesn't work since mana is consumable. If mana would regenerate over time you could heal all the time and shield constantly. But that's not the case.
No, the mana crystal is passive, but CAN be consumed!

Oh, that has to be fixed.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 07, 2014, 08:08:26 pm
Why? You really see Shamans becoming the new top pred on the top of the food chain? It can only help them heal more, shield and revive were already independent of mana regen.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 07, 2014, 08:15:28 pm
Dunno if this exists, but need a cvar to disable the BLOOP when your name is mentioned.
Can you leave in the bloop? Individual players can turn it off and I personally like it.
I added a cvar with 2 different modes + off.
I even forced Daemon to add it to the options menu.

Also, you forgot to mention summs and behes now regen health? I didn't see it in the list :D
@Daemon, is that intentional or is it a bug I need to fix?

im on mac if it matters
Sorry but:
Note to MacOS users: Like always, you will have to wait a little longer than the rest of the world. Hopefully it will only be a matter of hours. Thank you!
Hopefully it'll be possible on Monday; DJ and Mohi are working on it.

Also, implement a cvar to disable shaman's extra swing, just like you did for the "new" mining animations.
Shaman's .object? And mining animations have absolutely nothing to do with individual unit animations.
A cvar has even less to do with it.
Honestly, Jmz, for someone that pretends to know how Savage works, you really don't.
I see right through it.



So a single day has passed and people think they know how the balance changes affect stuff. :p Cute.
These changes are not new; they've been in Evolution for a very long time.
People who actually bothered to test them and give feedback over the course of its existence did so gradually; people who couldn't be bothered...well, no sympathies for them.
Please continue reporting, but please don't sound so stubbornly naive about it.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 07, 2014, 08:18:43 pm
Chaplain got:
-Increased mana regen for himself for FREE
-Increased mana regen for other chaplains FOR FREE
-An EMPTY slot that can carry demo or other items

Shamans got:
-Increased mana regen for himself for 500gold
-When used, shamans' can't use their 5th item slot for sac or other item
-45% pickable mana usable once, canceling the increased regen

What exactly needs to be fixed?

At the very most increase mana stone cost because of added functionality.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 08:20:04 pm
We can't change it in the object clemens... i talked to groentjuh about this, it causes lag or something because the client expects the melee to be there.

There doesn't appear to be an object setting for it.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: H3027 on September 07, 2014, 08:22:54 pm
Chaplain got:
-Increased mana regen for himself for FREE
-Increased mana regen for other chaplains FOR FREE
-An EMPTY slot that can carry demo or other items

Shamans got:
-Increased mana regen for himself for 1000gold
-When used, shamans' can't use their 5th item slot for sac or other item
-45% pickable mana usable once, canceling the increased regen

What exactly needs to be fixed?

The passive regen is too strong when used on shaman, plus as mentioned earlier, Chaplins can't compensate for their absence as fighters. My suggestion is:
http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,12519.msg192478.html#msg192478


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 07, 2014, 08:26:58 pm
The passive mana regen on Sham and the new potion mana regen on Chaps have the same effect: they can heal without any breaks. Both of them. Equally.

Find something else that does not involve frail old people with staffs carry weapons caches and i'll back you!

Let's give that thing to the Mech! It can drop or deploy into a field re-arming station. Chaps don't make sense being walking arsenals.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 07, 2014, 08:39:02 pm
We can't change it in the object clemens... i talked to groentjuh about this, it causes lag or something because the client expects the melee to be there.

There doesn't appear to be an object setting for it.
Shaman melee .object is also an option, if it's not in the shaman .object itself.

But regardless:
In fact, if disabling it server-side is not enough for you, you can even make a client patch for your "bunch of users" to permanently disable it for them.
If you change things significantly, as I said before, I recommend giving your "bunch of users" an own client patch for syncing.


And it's still not something that a cvar handles.
The most reasonable thing is: Either shaman's melee stays, or it's removed. Middle-ground on this is messy.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Groentjuh on September 07, 2014, 08:41:48 pm
The most reasonable thing is: Either shaman's melee stays, or it's removed. Middle-ground on this is messy.
In a few days/week we will look into that. I doubt that some second melee on shaman is the biggest thing ppl have an opinion about.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: H3027 on September 07, 2014, 08:44:13 pm
The passive mana regen on Sham and the new potion mana regen on Chaps have the same effect: they can heal without any breaks. Both of them. Equally.

Find something else that does not involve frail old people with staffs carry weapons caches and i'll back you!

Let's give that thing to the Mech! It can drop or deploy into a field re-arming station. Chaps don't make sense being walking arsenals.

Yes, in terms of healing they are equal. But shaman got mobility advantage and is hence better at reviving allies and got a shield that is useful to protect buildings and units. The shaman is good.

My point is that the chaplin can't compensate for his absence as a fighter.
With other words: You better choose to be a fighter than a healer supporting the fighters because your team will do better that way. And that shouldn't be. The chaplin can carry ammo packs, so why shouldn't he be able to give it to team mates for the sake of being more viable? Turning the chaplin from a pure healer into a more allrounder support unit with focus on healing is fine. He does already more than healing by being allowed to carry an item of choice.

And don't come up with the Mech at that point. First balance the elements that exist before you add new ones.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 07, 2014, 08:45:23 pm
I think you two should discuss these balance changes in the balance section. :)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: H3027 on September 07, 2014, 08:50:56 pm
I think you two should discuss these balance changes in the balance section. :)

I will as soon as Daemon reviews my suggestion and creates a thread where people discuss it.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 07, 2014, 09:08:12 pm
Will re-organize that section in a day or 2 because we're going to need to discuss 2nd generation re-balancing issues which are a great deal more complex than simple, isolated ideas.

Also, i agree with most of your points.
1. Healers needed major boosting.
2. Chaplains are still weak.
3. Shamans seem to benefit more

but

That doesn't mean Shams should be nerfed.

instead

It means that the job has to be completed for Chaps. But not irrationally.

----------------------

In other news, i think there's a way to make mana stone work more to the point. Instead of adding 1 mana per tick, as it did, it can be set to increase mana regen with a given percent... say, 20%. That value could be set to match that 1 mana it gave up until now. It also means shams get faster regen but not mana stuck at full.

But fine! Let's discuss balance.

Mana stone currently drops 3x mana crystals x 15% refill = 45% bonus mana.

Let's just agree that the ammo pack should act similarly. When dropped, it gives either 1 50% bonus  ammo or 5x10% or w/e.

But's :)
1. But everybody should be able to drop ammo, not chaps, specifically!
2. But even if chaps will be able to do that, they will still get reloc or demo, not ammo, so your point will not be reached!

If we made it so that ammo can be dropped by anyone if untouched (not having spent the default weapon ammo so you actually use the ammo box) then it's fine. Empty boxes can't regen like crystals, so even throwing an empty box on the ground, it's still empty.

How does that sound?
1. Percentage mana regen boost for mana stone instead of fixed value which is exploited by shams with high regen rate.
2. Throwable ammo boxes IF they are virgin. And chaps's obviously can't use them.

Now, how do we make chaps usable too? :)

BTW i'll move these posts to rebalancing when cleaning up.

[edit]Actually dropping a number of boxes in relation to how used the ammobox is sounds logical.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: APirateHat on September 07, 2014, 09:44:02 pm
@Everyone not liking the new friendly icon. I'm gonna put the 8x8px old one back so you can see how bad it sucks, how big it is and how it is over everything like buildings and everything, just like this one and just how it always was :).  

The old one was transparent in the middle, maybe that's why people liked it better and didn't notice it as much while this new one is a solid icon.

----

There is no challenge playing Shaman now btw, with that insane mana regen. Shaman is the unit I play the most and I really liked that you actually had to play him skillfully, managing your mana and stamina. That pretty much gone now. Not sure how to feel about the second swing yet, Shaman got higher DPS but he's already strong with that single swing.

Think your mistake was dropping such big update at once. Could have done smaller and more updates to test certain features.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 07, 2014, 09:52:46 pm
Think your mistake was dropping such big update at once. Could have done smaller and more updates to test certain features.
Evolution was available for a very long time.
Technically has little to do with this update. :mrgreen:

And Evolution is balanced to one another; if you only add bits once in a while, it wouldn't make quite as much balanced sense.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: APirateHat on September 07, 2014, 10:32:58 pm
Yes, evolution has been available but no one was clear about that features from it would make it into the main game so why would we play it? I discussed with Daemon  a long time ago that old players woudnt really like evo in main but he said it would stay as a mod. Why didnt you add these updated things to evo and then clearly tell us that these things will make it into the game eventually instead of just putting it in main? You guys are directing everyone to some old-ass thread that not even I knew about eventhough I'm active on the forum as proof that you said these things will be added. You are also saying these are changes that are needed and you know what is good for the game but I have barely seen you guys playing this past year.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 07, 2014, 10:47:00 pm
Yes, evolution has been available but no one was clear about that features from it would make it into the main game so why would we play it?
It was clear that all changes and additions in Evolution would make it into the main game if approved.
That was the whole purpose of Evolution; it's not an own game mode nor was it a mod for fun.
It wasn't put into standard game right away precisely so people could test it side-by-side first.

Why didnt you add these updated things to evo and then clearly tell us that these things will make it into the game eventually instead of just putting it in main?
Read above.

You guys are directing everyone to some old-ass thread that not even I knew about eventhough I'm active on the forum
Old-ass because this has been in the works for that long. Nothing new. Nothing surprising. Move along.

but I have barely seen you guys playing this past year.
These are not our changes or additions; these are community things.
How does it matter how much we play? I don't think I even posted a single balance suggestion.
Daemon himself keeps saying that he doesn't even like half of them.


Please inform yourself before complaining, APH.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on September 07, 2014, 11:05:42 pm
On a side note, possible to fix the reconnect-vote issue?

You could callvote then just reconnect repeatedly to pass it or stop it. Not sure if this patch fixed that...


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 07, 2014, 11:07:35 pm
On a side note, possible to fix the reconnect-vote issue?

You could callvote then just reconnect repeatedly to pass it or stop it. Not sure if this patch fixed that...
It didn't.

And it was suggested by someone else as well after this patch went live.
If I ever make another patch (haha, sure am motivated to do so now, huh?), I think I'd fix that.

EDIT:
Not a simple quick task.
People in charge would first have to decide how exactly they'd like this - what rules it should follow.
Like IP, GUID, client slot, anything else.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 08, 2014, 12:36:22 am
Here's something else for the list: once I select a spawn location and I temporarly spectate someone, why not spawn me where I selected (if possible) as soon as the timer finishes? Right now it brings you back to the spawn point selection.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 08, 2014, 12:52:45 am
Here's something else for the list: once I select a spawn location and I temporarly spectate someone, why not spawn me where I selected (if possible) as soon as the timer finishes? Right now it brings you back to the spawn point selection.
Noted for the future.

EDIT:
I decided to take a look at how complex adding this request would be (which usually involves already completing half of the work of actually adding it); and once I saw it wasn't too tedious, I simply went ahead and added it.
It'll be on the next patch, whenever that is.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 08, 2014, 04:01:52 am
For anyone wondering, just made a new patch.

Just a collection of bug fixes and new wishes (like the one above).


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 08, 2014, 05:50:08 am
For anyone wondering, just made a new patch.

Just a collection of bug fixes and new wishes (like the one above).

(http://replygif.net/i/1327.gif)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Haika on September 08, 2014, 01:40:05 pm
Hey!
Aight some days have passed by and i have been playing every now and then and the new patch is rly cool for ppl like me who is not playing any other game actively. The 2nd shaman swing is great counter to the ppl who whores them all the time(you should go for the shamans, to make them goldstarve). The ballisprint is something i havent checked out yet, cuz it is an unit i very rarely get the chance to play(reasoned by me joining the least stacked team all the time/ reasoned by me joining beast all the time).
but yet it hasnt been an issue to me. offi/comm different marks works epicly. The shamans 2nd hit is epic(looks epic too) and that the siege kills isnt dropping gold is imba.

Imo you shouldnt listen too much to what ppl are saying yet, they have played like this in a long time and rly adjusted to the way things was, which they felt comfortable with and therefore not satesfied with all the changes. It is just a matter of a few new perspectives in the game. It is a change we all need.

Let me put it this way: if you are 30 years old living in your moms basement without a job and she throws you out, you surely exit the comfort zone you have been sheltering in a long time, but surely it doesnt hurt you.

now since people have the old game-mentality in their head they dont understand the fact that you have to adjust and conquer the new playstyles, and therefore they rather come up with critics instead of thinkin about new solutions.

im 100% supporting every damn change you did, even the ballisprint(atleast for now). And im looking forward to play savage with a different mentality in what is smart to do in order to win.

Haku and Daemon, you have ppl appreciating the things you do! Dont get stuck on the people who isnt cuz they have a louder voice than us. I really hope that the greatful players compensates somehow to the ppl not enjoying it(motivation-wise)

Thanks again!! :lol:


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: bot on September 08, 2014, 02:59:12 pm

im on mac if it matters
Sorry but:
Note to MacOS users: Like always, you will have to wait a little longer than the rest of the world. Hopefully it will only be a matter of hours. Thank you!
Hopefully it'll be possible on Monday; DJ and Mohi are working on it.
ting, but please don't sound so stubbornly naive about it.
[/quote]

thanks.It still doesnt work btw :/


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: APirateHat on September 08, 2014, 03:18:11 pm
Yes, evolution has been available but no one was clear about that features from it would make it into the main game so why would we play it?
It was clear that all changes and additions in Evolution would make it into the main game if approved.
That was the whole purpose of Evolution; it's not an own game mode nor was it a mod for fun.
It wasn't put into standard game right away precisely so people could test it side-by-side first.

How was it clear? Was there a news post? A recent thread about it? How come I just got to know about it a week ago if you guys were so clear about it. The first thing I did when I heard Evolution features would be made into the default game was going to a server with evolution mod on it and trying stuff out, but the problem was the mod wasn't up-to-date. How the fuck do you think we could test these features out then? I'm more pissed off how shitty you guys handled this than what was in the update and keep spouting "You had time to test evolution". If I would have fucking known it would be in default I(and probably more people) would have came with suggestions and then there probably wouldn't be as many replies in this thread.

I discussed with Daemon  a long time ago that old players woudnt really like evo in main but he said it would stay as a mod.

Look at this again. Very clear indeed.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 08, 2014, 03:57:40 pm
You just ignored everything I said and decided to stick to your ignorant whining.
Just because YOU didn't notice, doesn't mean it wasn't clearly there.

In that case, don't waste my time.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Nanaa on September 08, 2014, 04:12:23 pm
Halp!

The patch broke my inventory, attack and leap/block.

I updated the game today (OS: Win 7). First thing I noticed was that my inventory looks empty even though I carry stuff. In the loadout screen it shows the correct items. Restarting didn't help. https://imageshack.com/i/f0kVFyd5p

(Up to this point the game was playable. Attack worked, block/leap worked, everything worked except the inventory not showing my stuff.)

Next I went to Player options. Some things were out of place. Check out the screenshot: https://imageshack.com/i/f0WvwsbWp
(those little captures are from my startup.cfg showing the corresponding bind)

I tried to rebind attack and block/leap in the options screen. Bound lbutton to attack and rbutton to block/leap. End result was this: https://imageshack.com/i/f0fch7Txp
Same thing happens with Select item 1-5. Tried to bind Select Item 1 to "1" but it automatically bound all the Select item 1-5 to "1". Binding Select item 2 to "2", bound all the Select items to "2".

Only binding Next Item to "wheelup" worked fine.

After this options tweaking mess the game became unplayable. Neither lbutton nor lbutton could be used for attack or leap/block. Pressing either key would just toggle sprinting on. Using number keys for selecting items won't naturally work either.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 08, 2014, 04:34:24 pm
thanks.It still doesnt work btw :/
Yeah, because the buildhost fixing/setting up starts on Monday (today), and I have no ETA on how long it'll take. :/


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 08, 2014, 04:37:11 pm
Next I went to Player options. Some things were out of place. Check out the screenshot: https://imageshack.com/i/f0WvwsbWp
(those little captures are from my startup.cfg showing the corresponding bind)

I tried to rebind attack and block/leap in the options screen. Bound lbutton to attack and rbutton to block/leap. End result was this: https://imageshack.com/i/f0fch7Txp
Same thing happens with Select item 1-5. Tried to bind Select Item 1 to "1" but it automatically bound all the Select item 1-5 to "1". Binding Select item 2 to "2", bound all the Select items to "2".
Yes, I know of this bug.

But it's unrelated to your broken inventory; that's new.

The patch broke my inventory, attack and leap/block.

I updated the game today (OS: Win 7). First thing I noticed was that my inventory looks empty even though I carry stuff. In the loadout screen it shows the correct items. Restarting didn't help. https://imageshack.com/i/f0kVFyd5p
Is anyone else having the same issue?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: APirateHat on September 08, 2014, 04:39:54 pm
So far have you shown me zero proof of how it was clearly there. I consider myself pretty active on this forum and the community in general with lots of time ingame as well, but I somehow got to know this a week ago? Really?

I wanted to know it beforehand so I could have had time to test it more than what I did and give feedback, is that wrong?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 08, 2014, 04:55:52 pm
Fixed the options bug, will be on the next patch.

Can you give me more info to your other bug, Nanaa?
You're the only person I've heard it from.

@APH, if you can't be bothered to pay attention or put in effort, neither can I.
Seems fair to me.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: APirateHat on September 08, 2014, 05:24:13 pm
@APH, if you can't be bothered to pay attention or put in effort, neither can I.
Seems fair to me.

If you want me to shut up then show me a recent thread already. Shouldn't be so hard when it has been so clear, right? If I'm feeling you guys haven't been clear about this why don't you prove me wrong?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 08, 2014, 05:32:38 pm
Your last posts prove you haven't been listening to a word I've said. :|
No one even said there was a recent thread, Evolution has been ongoing for more than a year!
And, if you want to be picky, then this thread you're currently whining in was posted a day before the patch. ;)
Let alone in-game notifications by eager admins.

"Whine whine whine, I didn't know, whine whine whine, how could this happen? whine whine whine, must be someone else's fault! whine whine whine now I'll spam this thread so real and meaningful reports get missed in the mess! whine whine whine"
Are you done yet?
If you wish to continue whining and blame others for your own mistakes, please do it via PM.
Let less ignorant people use this thread for actual reporting.
Thank you.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: APirateHat on September 08, 2014, 06:39:54 pm
Then you must have not read my post either because that was my point. There hasn't been any recent thread where the devs told us this and then you expect us to have been testing the evolution mod because it was so obvious this was going to be in default because of an old thread? If you would have announced it then I wouldn't have spammed this precious thread of yours and wouldn't have been annoyed by this lack of connection to the community you guys have.

I'll be quiet now and won't spam anymore, sorry for discussing it this much but hope it shows that I actually care. I love this game. I joined the advertising team because of that reason as well.



Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 08, 2014, 06:59:27 pm
I know you love this game, most long-term people around do.

But there's a difference between constructive criticism and simply whining that we're not spoon-feeding you.

This was a spontaneous patch; not even the one making it (me) knew that there would be one.
And Evolution has been in the works for a long time, with no recent changes.
It was always planned to eventually leak into Standard.
Else, the whole re-balancing section managed by Newerth and the Community is essentially a huge waste of time, don't you think?
Even now we're accepting feedback to the balance changes and sticking around to be able to adjust accordingly.
It would be so much easier for Daemon and me to NOT give a damn about the community's wishes and never have to bother with any of this. But we do, and then you complain that we do.

As I keep saying, I know I'm not a likeable person, and I know people will throw hate me just for being here, and that is fine.
But if you must do so, at least do it reasonably and leave ignorance at home.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 08, 2014, 07:39:07 pm
I discussed with Daemon  a long time ago that old players woudnt really like evo in main but he said it would stay as a mod.

I remember those talks we had when i was showing you the Evolution mod, and i clearly recall saying something along the lines of your quote. Only it was about the 2 new units I made, the glider and the mech, because those were my additions and they did trigger plenty feedback, both positive and negative.

The feedback we got about the rest of the changes was just like this:
http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,14982.0.html

Now, find me a piece of bad feedback about it anywhere else... :/

Oh and about not "letting you know". I didn't specifically name you, jes.

http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,12519.msg150481.html#msg150481
http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,14982.msg172483.html#msg172483
http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,13944.0.html (main page news)
http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,13987.msg162508.html#msg162508

Have you even read any of the re-balancing suggestions debates that are publicly available since 2010?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: H3027 on September 08, 2014, 08:56:34 pm
Admittedly, these 2 new units must have confused many people and were what made Evolution look like a mod to them. While in fact the purpose of of Evolution was to test the discussed balancing changes before adding them into the default game - which many didn't even notice since the new units grabbed all of their attention.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: drk on September 08, 2014, 10:42:19 pm
Small, not critical bug (if it is).
When you take shaman + any item in that new slot and then saving that into a preset - that preset does not work. It does not take that extra item.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: ^.#Tasty on September 09, 2014, 11:29:03 am
I just can say: thanks to all who worked on this
Savage need guys like you


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 10, 2014, 03:17:03 am
Edit: woops I didn't see this was already fixed.

-----------------------------------------------------
Despite a working 1.1 client until now, I've just gotten exactly the same problem as Nanaa.
Binding anything to any "select item" automatically binds to all of them (at least in the gui).
Binding anything to any attack or block/leap binds it to the other one also (at least in the gui).

For example if I bind LButton to attack, and type "bind lbutton" in the console to see the binds, it shows me
lbutton (down): button4 1
lbutton (up): button2 0

Binding, say, Q, to one of the select item, and typing "bind q" results in
toggle playermaptoggle; exec /gui/standard/ui_player_minimap_toggle.cfg; exec //etc etc etc

I don't know why the problem started now and not before.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 10, 2014, 03:49:39 am
Because I had to move around stuff to fix other stuff, so a previous bug I had already fixed got undone.
It's already fixed in the code, the question is just when I'll make the next patch.

I'm currently waiting for a Mac buildhost to be available so I can, essentially, make the final patch and be done. :roll:
I was promised said buildhost like a week ago, and was reassured that even if that fails, I'd get another one.
I'm sorry that Mac still has to wait, but I, too, am still waiting.
Both DJ and Mohi are working on getting a Mac buildhost up as soon as possible.
ETA for either is "will take time...".


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: bot on September 10, 2014, 08:51:59 pm
thanks for the information, mate.
I appriciate your work on this.

Because I had to move around stuff to fix other stuff, so a previous bug I had already fixed got undone.
It's already fixed in the code, the question is just when I'll make the next patch.

I'm currently waiting for a Mac buildhost to be available so I can, essentially, make the final patch and be done. :roll:
I was promised said buildhost like a week ago, and was reassured that even if that fails, I'd get another one.
I'm sorry that Mac still has to wait, but I, too, am still waiting.
Both DJ and Mohi are working on getting a Mac buildhost up as soon as possible.
ETA for either is "will take time...".


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 10, 2014, 09:48:12 pm
Making a small patch for Mac that should allow them to at least spectate on 1.1 servers, even if they can't play.
It's one of the few things I can do for them right now.  :|


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: bot on September 12, 2014, 09:30:57 am
Making a small patch for Mac that should allow them to at least spectate on 1.1 servers, even if they can't play.
It's one of the few things I can do for them right now.  :|

any news?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: APirateHat on September 12, 2014, 02:36:27 pm
Is there a bug thread for 1.1 stuff? There is this bug with that panel that shows up at the top when the commander marks stuff. If I walk into a spawn point and out again that panel is disappears until the comm re-marks. Same thing with the officer panel.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: bot on September 12, 2014, 02:46:45 pm
I want to play again......if there wont be a version for mac users then write a statement! And remove the mac version of savage xr from the mainpage.


Much QQ ikr..


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Nanaa on September 12, 2014, 03:51:01 pm
I want to play again......if there wont be a version for mac users then write a statement! And remove the mac version of savage xr from the mainpage.


Much QQ ikr..
Play with this:
http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: bot on September 12, 2014, 04:42:36 pm
I want to play again......if there wont be a version for mac users then write a statement! And remove the mac version of savage xr from the mainpage.


Much QQ ikr..
Play with this:
http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/
thanks, ive tried it and but it wont work. some random bug shows up when i want to join a game. It made all the autoupdates tho.

so thanks for the advice but i dont got the nerves now for another nonworking program. :|


edit/treid another .exe file wich works, so its a savage issue



Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 12, 2014, 04:50:38 pm
I want to play again......if there wont be a version for mac users then write a statement! And remove the mac version of savage xr from the mainpage.


Much QQ ikr..

Clemens said that Mohican and Django are working on it. Nobody said there's not going to be a mac version so why do you even go there? I bet if you donated 500 Euros for a new mac buildhost things would move much smoother.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 12, 2014, 05:41:53 pm
If in a week neither Mac buildhost is still not available, I'll make a special exception for Mac, but it will still not work as well as Win/Linux clients (the new features will not be there).

Mac has never been properly supported, you Mac users know that.
I actually go out of my way to help you Mac guys however I can. :|



Is there a bug thread for 1.1 stuff? There is this bug with that panel that shows up at the top when the commander marks stuff. If I walk into a spawn point and out again that panel is disappears until the comm re-marks. Same thing with the officer panel.
Just posting them here is fine.
I'll take a look at that.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: bot on September 12, 2014, 06:36:07 pm
I want to play again......if there wont be a version for mac users then write a statement! And remove the mac version of savage xr from the mainpage.


Much QQ ikr..

Clemens said that Mohican and Django are working on it. Nobody said there's not going to be a mac version so why do you even go there? I bet if you donated 500 Euros for a new mac buildhost things would move much smoother.

You are right. I mean, how do i even dare to compl.....im sorry my Lord!

If in a week neither Mac buildhost is still not available, I'll make a special exception for Mac, but it will still not work as well as Win/Linux clients (the new features will not be there).

Mac has never been properly supported, you Mac users know that.
I actually go out of my way to help you Mac guys however I can. :|


Thanks for your efforts! Take your time and if there are no new features at all - no problem!!!!
Savage was (atleast for me) running alright before the new update...


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 12, 2014, 06:54:13 pm
There is this bug with that panel that shows up at the top when the commander marks stuff. If I walk into a spawn point and out again that panel is disappears until the comm re-marks. Same thing with the officer panel.
Fixed.
Do players want me to patch this fix right away or wait until the next patch?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Nanaa on September 12, 2014, 07:45:16 pm
@hakugei, wait till next patch, not that important


Quote
* Behemoth hitting a democharge now causes it to explode instantly.
That feature either not implemented or Groentjuh disabled it on Kingdom server.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Groentjuh on September 13, 2014, 09:43:19 am
Nah, that was one bug neither JmZ nor I cared to report so far. We tested that in both US and GK some days after the patch and it was just not working...


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 13, 2014, 10:37:27 am
Dat demo...


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: KingKong_ on September 13, 2014, 12:33:08 pm
Great news, I love those gameplay changes in Evolution mod but I thought they weren't actually going to make it into the main game. Especially the healer changes are great, shaman has always been a very useful and fun unit to play, and with these changes chaplain becomes just as fun.

Haven't played the game in a month or two but these updates certainly get me playing again.

edit:

don't know if it's reported yet, but the "preset last" doesn't work with new healer items. The preset always assumes that if you had a healer, you had a healer without 5th item.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 13, 2014, 04:47:33 pm
don't know if it's reported yet, but the "preset last" doesn't work with new healer items. The preset always assumes that if you had a healer, you had a healer without 5th item.
Yes; I don't know when I'll take a look.


That damn demo sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.
I'm guessing the mix of dedicated server and string cvar comparisons are the culprit just as they were in the past.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: sacrificeXsteel on September 13, 2014, 09:49:26 pm
really cool patch thanks for the work ! :)

The new color system looks great it gives better control for the experienced players and makes it easier for beginners to follow orders  :)
will be interresting to see how carn & the new speed drop will interact  :evil:
Also the new solution for the behe unit sounds good, waiting to see how it impacts the playstyle of some players  :-D
Hope the new Healer settings brings even more Teamplay  :-)

Nice work!


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 13, 2014, 11:48:39 pm
don't know if it's reported yet, but the "preset last" doesn't work with new healer items. The preset always assumes that if you had a healer, you had a healer without 5th item.
Yes; I don't know when I'll take a look.
I took a look, and whoever coded it never imagined that healer would mix with a 5th item. :roll:
Probably not a quick fix.

Quote
* Behemoth hitting a democharge now causes it to explode instantly.
That feature either not implemented or Groentjuh disabled it on Kingdom server.
Fixed it and should be on the patch on Sunday.
But the solution only works for Standard as is and not for Evolution itself. :|


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Crashday on September 14, 2014, 06:24:05 pm
qol bug (was before this patch): when lair or stronghold dies and i start a vote before the victory/lose screen pops up the vote can be heard (ding sound) but it's invisible until somebody presses f1/f2

qol bug 2 (was before this patch): sometimes it happens that in spawn screen i have to press menu instead of spawn to actually spawn. this usually happens after a shuffle/even teams vote.

serious bug which im pretty sure started after this patch: as commander it happens sometimes after elect that i cant mark one single worker with single click. but i can mark them with double click. after this bug occurs buildings cant be marked anymore. i have to reconnect to the server for this bug to dissappear.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 14, 2014, 07:51:15 pm
serious bug which im pretty sure started after this patch: as commander it happens sometimes after elect that i cant mark one single worker with single click. but i can mark them with double click. after this bug occurs buildings cant be marked anymore. i have to reconnect to the server for this bug to dissappear.

I think i got it too.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 14, 2014, 07:55:14 pm
qol bug (was before this patch): when lair or stronghold dies and i start a vote before the victory/lose screen pops up the vote can be heard (ding sound) but it's invisible until somebody presses f1/f2
Fixed; will be on next patch.

qol bug 2 (was before this patch): sometimes it happens that in spawn screen i have to press menu instead of spawn to actually spawn. this usually happens after a shuffle/even teams vote.
When exactly does this happen?
In which menu are you currently or what game status & player state are you in?

serious bug which im pretty sure started after this patch: as commander it happens sometimes after elect that i cant mark one single worker with single click. but i can mark them with double click. after this bug occurs buildings cant be marked anymore. i have to reconnect to the server for this bug to dissappear.
Sometimes?  :|
Hasn't happened for me during all my testing.
I can't reproduce it.
Is there perhaps more to this bug?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Crashday on September 14, 2014, 09:57:36 pm
qol bug 2 happens after a succeded shuffle/even team vote. this is the menu i meant: imgur.com (http://imgur.com/CmXJ5sT)

about the comm interface bug. i was not able to reproduce it so far. i'll pay attention what exactly happened next time it occurs. it only occured on public servers so far. never when testing maps

another thing: i dont know if it is intentional but the requests button in the commander interface hasn't ever been working. not even in sfe times. before that idk


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 14, 2014, 10:32:57 pm
another thing: i dont know if it is intentional but the requests button in the commander interface hasn't ever been working. not even in sfe times. before that idk
I believe to recall it actually had a purpose at one point.
Long ago you could open the list of pending requests and manually accept/deny them.
It used to have a "manual-accept" mode, which annoyed everyone having to wait for gold (especially as it was on manual by default and comms forgot about it).
Nowadays it was changed to auto-accept and auto-deny, but I guess no one ever removed the button nor adjusted the interface...


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Crashday on September 15, 2014, 02:08:43 am
i see. i can't think of any comm who is capable of handling each gold request manually xD

another thing i remember from playing today: sth seems wrong when officers mark enemy targets. i clearly heard him saying "attack the enemy building" although a unit was marked (orange mark). it was the commander's voice speaking.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Moxy on September 15, 2014, 10:38:42 am
there is now two marks, an officer mark and a commander mark. one orange one red, Maybe it was simple the commander using shift to tell you a second different command? whilst the officer had the mark on a player


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Taggi on September 15, 2014, 11:30:54 am
Theres a bug that happens occasionally, having no gold and you request a shaman for example. It doesnt remove the request label over the unit you requested (and gotten accepted) or graphicly show that you have the requested unit selected ready to spawn. It still shows the default scavenger. Altough when you spawn you will be the shaman.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 15, 2014, 02:11:02 pm
Theres a bug that happens occasionally, having no gold and you request a shaman for example. It doesnt remove the request label over the unit you requested (and gotten accepted) or graphicly show that you have the requested unit selected ready to spawn. It still shows the default scavenger. Altough when you spawn you will be the shaman.
Occasionally? And every unit or only shaman/chaplain?
And is this a new or old bug?

another thing i remember from playing today: sth seems wrong when officers mark enemy targets. i clearly heard him saying "attack the enemy building" although a unit was marked (orange mark). it was the commander's voice speaking.
If this keeps happening (and you're certain it's not just as Moxy says), please remind me a bit later again.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Taggi on September 15, 2014, 03:18:24 pm
I dont play much so hard to say frequency wise. Might just be shammy as i noticed it last night when i was play sac'ing sham.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 15, 2014, 04:41:32 pm
It's 100% an older bug, i got it too sometimes.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: SavageLegacy on September 15, 2014, 09:57:25 pm
Any ETA on the mac client yet?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 15, 2014, 10:00:30 pm
Any ETA on the mac client yet?
I contacted both of them myself once again; still waiting on a reply.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 15, 2014, 10:07:11 pm
I understand that there are contraints and limited resources involved in decisions made, but I don't understand why server owners couldn't have waited until 1.1 for Mac before updating the servers. I'm all for implementing all updates asap but leaving behind mac users is a good way to let players lose interest and go inactive.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 15, 2014, 11:04:32 pm
Because the Mac patch was planned to come out only a few days later at most.
(In fact, it was initially planned not to be delayed at all!)
Everyone relied on this.

And if the new patch isn't tested sooner rather than later, there is no guarantee that late reports will be fixed.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 16, 2014, 01:38:40 am
Windows and Linux patch for the above fixes.
And content patch for all 3 OS.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 16, 2014, 12:49:08 pm
Gameplay fixes in the latest hotfix:
http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,17488.0.html


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Crashday on September 16, 2014, 05:20:50 pm
Is it possible to implement an option for commanders which allows them so set specific gold thresholds? E.g: gold level threshold 1000 means players can request gold until 1000 gold is left.

Another thing. Is it possible to change workers in a way that allows commanders to set specific ressources drop-off points? Sometimes workers try to reach the nearest garrison even if the way to it is blocked.

The ally-icon (green shield icon floating above teammates) seems to me a bit too noticeable. Maybe a more semitransparent one is more pleasant.
E.g: (http://i.imgur.com/5lTbZJo.png)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 16, 2014, 05:42:10 pm
Is it possible to implement an option for commanders which allows them so set specific gold thresholds? E.g: gold level threshold 1000 means players can request gold until 1000 gold is left.
I recall that at least used to be possible at one point another; I don't know if it still is.
Regardless, this should be the cvar governing it, if it does still work: cl_cmdr_goldReserve

Another thing. Is it possible to change workers in a way that allows commanders to set specific ressources drop-off points? Sometimes workers try to reach the nearest garrison even if the way to it is blocked.
This was suggested already, but the visual feedback necessary for this is a whole other task - so it's not quick.
I'm not even sure yet how much might break if I coded that. :p And I'm kind of sick of this patch.
I'll reconsider it, again, though.

The ally-icon (green shield icon floating above teammates) seems to me a bit too noticeable. Maybe a more semitransparent one is more pleasant.
E.g: (http://i.imgur.com/5lTbZJo.png)
Noted. Finally a useful post concerning this. :-P



another thing i remember from playing today: sth seems wrong when officers mark enemy targets. i clearly heard him saying "attack the enemy building" although a unit was marked (orange mark). it was the commander's voice speaking.
I received a bugreport concerning something related to marking, so I took the chance to fix this as well in the process.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 16, 2014, 09:41:19 pm
Another thing. Is it possible to change workers in a way that allows commanders to set specific ressources drop-off points? Sometimes workers try to reach the nearest garrison even if the way to it is blocked.
This was suggested already, but the visual feedback necessary for this is a whole other task - so it's not quick.
I'm not even sure yet how much might break if I coded that. :p And I'm kind of sick of this patch.
I'll reconsider it, again, though.
A first draft of this should be on the next patch.



Is it possible to implement an option for commanders which allows them so set specific gold thresholds? E.g: gold level threshold 1000 means players can request gold until 1000 gold is left.
I recall that at least used to be possible at one point another; I don't know if it still is.
Regardless, this should be the cvar governing it, if it does still work: cl_cmdr_goldReserve
Turns out, it still exists:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71297856/GoldReserve.png)
See if it works as intended.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 16, 2014, 10:24:41 pm
The ally-icon (green shield icon floating above teammates) seems to me a bit too noticeable. Maybe a more semitransparent one is more pleasant.
E.g: (http://i.imgur.com/5lTbZJo.png)

Give me a 64x64 version please.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Ophelia on September 16, 2014, 11:03:33 pm
Give me a 64x64 version please.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 16, 2014, 11:14:32 pm
Pretty sure you just blew it up ang


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Crashday on September 16, 2014, 11:15:13 pm
remade for 64x64: (http://i.imgur.com/KkdnsTl.png) (http://imgur.com/KkdnsTl)
EDIT: Great stuff. Looking forward to new comm features!


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Ophelia on September 17, 2014, 12:10:38 am
Disable gold for buffs like you did for siege perhaps?  :mrgreen: (Slash had idea)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 17, 2014, 01:55:04 am
Is this Natsu's pack some people in-game requested?
http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,16034.0.html


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 17, 2014, 04:05:08 am
I would appreciate it, as an option. (Both client adjustments setting and voteable nabmod).


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 17, 2014, 01:44:44 pm
What are these settings you speak of?
I looked at the files, and it's just nabmod + effects.

Adding nabmod isn't up for discussion (this isn't the place for that), but the effects could have been.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 17, 2014, 07:49:26 pm
Sorry I didn't mean that the gamepack implements a setting (it doesn't), but that it would be nice to have a setting which enables his graphics adjustments.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 17, 2014, 08:56:26 pm
remade for 64x64: (http://i.imgur.com/KkdnsTl.png) (http://imgur.com/KkdnsTl)
EDIT: Great stuff. Looking forward to new comm features!

Thanks.

For comparison:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/57084056/Savage/friendly.png)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 17, 2014, 11:10:09 pm
New Windows and Linux bin+content patch.



@Mac users

Mohi's Mac buildhost is broken to a degree that he can't fix it without spending a considerably amount of time on it.
DJ's Mac is running now, but he's having issues with running the correct versions necessary for a buildhost.

I'm hoping DJ manages to solve those issues, else I really will have to make an exception for Mac and then Mac will never receive a new update again. :|


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: bot on September 18, 2014, 09:10:13 am
New Windows and Linux bin+content patch.



@Mac users

Mohi's Mac buildhost is broken to a degree that he can't fix it without spending a considerably amount of time on it.
DJ's Mac is running now, but he's having issues with running the correct versions necessary for a buildhost.

I'm hoping DJ manages to solve those issues, else I really will have to make an exception for Mac and then Mac will never receive a new update again. :|
thanks for the info.

edit// i wont disrespect your work and your efforts but if it will take now weeks/month to get a running mac version...never mind the updates so atleast the mac users can play again the game.

...but leaving behind mac users is a good way to let players lose interest and go inactive.

For now this will be my last post. i dont want to stress you too much x). Good luck!


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: SavageLegacy on September 20, 2014, 02:47:58 pm
@Mac users

Mohi's Mac buildhost is broken to a degree that he can't fix it without spending a considerably amount of time on it.
DJ's Mac is running now, but he's having issues with running the correct versions necessary for a buildhost.

I'm hoping DJ manages to solve those issues, else I really will have to make an exception for Mac and then Mac will never receive a new update again. :|
What would this mean towards competitive play? Would mac users with an un-updated client still be able to participate in tournaments and cups?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Silent Killer on September 20, 2014, 04:51:43 pm
PPL!!! Somebody please send me fully updated server! (I have stringtables issue)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 20, 2014, 06:59:02 pm
What would this mean towards competitive play? Would mac users with an un-updated client still be able to participate in tournaments and cups?
Means Mac can still play, just with an obvious disadvantage.

And there likely won't ever be another XR patch due to Mac.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: SavageLegacy on September 20, 2014, 07:34:15 pm
Is it not possible to make the patch so that macs can play, and then update again once mohican/DJ have made the mac patch?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 20, 2014, 07:45:20 pm
Yes, and I said I will do so if Mac isn't happening.
Hence as I just said, they can play in the future one way or another.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: SavageLegacy on September 20, 2014, 08:27:32 pm
Yes, and I said I will do so if Mac isn't happening.
Hence as I just said, they can play in the future one way or another.

Ahh whoops, misread it as there won't be another patch "to macs", not "due to macs" so I assumed it was either the mac patch from Mohican/do or the mac patch from you, not both.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 20, 2014, 09:49:30 pm
DJ has gotten some progress, but the earliest a Mac patch might work is tomorrow.
So, if the Mac is up and running, I'll have a Mac patch ready tomorrow.
If the patch fails for whatever reason, I'll make a Win/Linux server patch to allow 1.0 Macs to play anyway.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: shuN on September 21, 2014, 02:37:37 am
Quote from: Crashday
Another thing. Is it possible to change workers in a way that allows commanders to set specific ressources drop-off points? Sometimes workers try to reach the nearest garrison even if the way to it is blocked.

So.. I just lost a match as commander because of the change implemented with this.

I accidentally clicked this off, my workers were blocked by the surrounding buildings.. and the kept getting stopped because the buildings were in the way of the worker pathing.

So.. instead of going to the sublair which was right next to the freakin mine.. they attempted to go back to the sublair, which was blocked.. ended up my resource gathering slowed dramatically, and i couldn't get level 3 Lair quick enough to even tech between teams!

All because I inadvertantly dechecked this drop off point mark.

REMOVE PLEASE! 7 years I have with no problem of this happening!  :mrgreen:

my 2 cents. opinion based.   :-)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 21, 2014, 03:16:11 am
REMOVE PLEASE!
Or remove it yourself without forcing others to miss out on it - three different ways to do so.
  • Remove file: (Quickest)
    .\SavageXR\game\savage.s2z\gui\standard\gridmenus\gridbutton_DROPOFF.cfg
    OR
  • Remove command in file: (Best)
    .\SavageXR\game\savage.s2z\gui\standard\gridmenus\gridbutton_DROPOFF.cfg
    OR
  • Replace DROPOFF with EMPTY in files: (Desperate)
    .\SavageXR\game\savage.s2z\gui\standard\gridmenus\human\layout_garrison.cfg
    .\SavageXR\game\savage.s2z\gui\standard\gridmenus\beast\layout_sublair.cfg

Features are not inherently evil; it's how you use them that matters.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 21, 2014, 02:46:53 pm
DJ's Mac is up and running, but still has some issues with remote access; we're working on it.

Meanwhile, I patched Win/Linux servers to allow 1.0 to play anyway.
It has been way too long; had I known Mac would be delayed this long, I'd have done it this way from the beginning.
BE WARNED! This may or may not work properly due to missing files, missing code and general de-syncing due to an non-updated Mac client!

Since I don't have a Mac to test with, please let me know if it works and what issues arise.
(Servers need to update first, of course.)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 22, 2014, 01:53:49 am
The last remaining Mac buildhost issues have been resolved, so...

MAC 1.1 is out!


Trillian and Bandit helped me test the patch to confirm that it works.
Special thanks to them.

I don't know how well the Mac patch runs, so if there are any issues, please do report them and I'll see what I can do.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 22, 2014, 01:54:58 am
Yay!


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 22, 2014, 04:26:34 am
Multiple people have asked me about fixing the "disconnect vote abuse", and I stated I won't be fixing it until the people in charge (e.g. admins and devs) come to a decision on how the system is supposed to be.

Since none of the aforementioned people in charge seem to care or don't want to think about it, I took the initiative and fixed it myself:
Votes cast by players who disconnect are reverted.
Meaning, if a player who voted yes/no leaves, that player's vote is removed from the votepool.


This is a quick and simple fix, until a proper system is designed and wished for.
It will be on the next server patch (date unknown).


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 22, 2014, 07:28:44 am
2017


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: bot on September 22, 2014, 04:39:38 pm
The last remaining Mac buildhost issues have been resolved, so...

MAC 1.1 is out!


Trillian and Bandit helped me test the patch to confirm that it works.
Special thanks to them.

I don't know how well the Mac patch runs, so if there are any issues, please do report them and I'll see what I can do.

Thanks!!!!


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 25, 2014, 12:26:43 am
New patch, all OS.

  • New custom clan flags.
  • More GUID and UID logging for servers.
  • Disconnected players have their vote revoked.
  • Fixed commander getting the officer voice.
  • Fixed some of the accuracy panel stuff.
  • Graphicmod options support for XR.
  • Ignored people show up as black in playerlist. Disable with cl_blackignore 0.
  • If sadist award is tied, the award goes to the one with less deaths.
  • Anti-hack stuff.  *ssshh*

Note: Remember that some things are client-side, and some things are server-side. So to be sure the patch works as intended, both the servers and the clients need to be fully updated.

If there are questions for the above stuff, feel free to ask.
Also, please continue reporting any bugs caused by this series of 1.1 patching.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 25, 2014, 12:36:10 am
Daaaang good stuff  :lol:


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Moxy on September 25, 2014, 10:38:33 am
ooh just notice a new performance auto adjust in the GFX panel, What does that do exactly? im guessing changes settings automatically so your fps doesn't drop?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 25, 2014, 01:58:59 pm
That autoadjust has already been there, long enough.
Enabling it gives you a few further options.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Crashday on September 25, 2014, 02:30:06 pm
I came across another thing which is a bit painfully every now and then. When you for example create workers at lair/sublair and give them a position where they should go after they spawn (ex. redstone mine) and you spawn in the meanwhile the worker spawns, it just stands there and does nothing. Would be great if workers keep remembering what they're supposed to do after a commander spawns.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: SavageLegacy on September 25, 2014, 02:39:14 pm
I've noticed that you can't recieve other awards as a commander anymore. Is this a bug or intentional? If so, why?
Also, just wondering if the reloc bug where you would place reloc then go into comm then spawn again and then reloc wouldn't work is fixed.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 25, 2014, 02:46:02 pm
I came across another thing which is a bit painfully every now and then. When you for example create workers at lair/sublair and give them a position where they should go after they spawn (ex. redstone mine) and you spawn in the meanwhile the worker spawns, it just stands there and does nothing. Would be great if workers keep remembering what they're supposed to do after a commander spawns.
That's intentional, though. Building waypoints are reset when the commander resigns, so the new commander gets to make up his own orders. Probably.
Alternatively, I could change it that they are only reset when a new commander takes the spot.
Or not at all (but who knows what that might cause internally).



I've noticed that you can't recieve other awards as a commander anymore. Is this a bug or intentional? If so, why?
Commander could never receive other awards before...
Has been restricted to "Best Commander" ever since I remember.
(Exception: Hero, as that is calculated differently.)
Acting officer has the same restriction.

Also, just wondering if the reloc bug where you would place reloc then go into comm then spawn again and then reloc wouldn't work is fixed.
I haven't touched any code related to that.
Also, it "doesn't work", because the commander loses the reloc trigger.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Moxy on September 25, 2014, 04:40:44 pm
That autoadjust has already been there, long enough.
Enabling it gives you a few further options.

ah yeah duh!! Airhead moment from me :P


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 25, 2014, 04:42:44 pm
I've noticed that you can't recieve other awards as a commander anymore.
Legacy stop getting sadists as comm  :lol:


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: SavageLegacy on September 25, 2014, 05:41:03 pm
Commander could never receive other awards before...
Has been restricted to "Best Commander" ever since I remember.
(Exception: Hero, as that is calculated differently.)
Acting officer has the same restriction.
What I mean is if you were resigned as commander, you could receive other awards. (You wouldn't recieve best commander, but I think it would go into stats as a win/loss regardless due to you being the last commander in the seat?)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 25, 2014, 05:57:58 pm
You wouldn't get the best commander award if resigned, even if you got the win/loss.
(Those are two separate values.)

Now, resigning makes you acting officer, and thus you are still considered commander until someone else takes over.
As I said, acting officer is restricted to the same award rules as commander.
This was wished for.

Resigning doesn't make you a normal player. :) So neither will you be considered nor judged as a normal player.


If wished for, I can unrestrict commander and acting officer in general (this could have been done so over the years already!), but it'll have to be strictly both or strictly neither - only picking one over the other makes no sense.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: SavageLegacy on September 27, 2014, 08:01:09 pm
Both! That way you can get best commander and other player awards, right?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 27, 2014, 08:10:29 pm
Yep.
I personally would indeed prefer the restriction be removed, but it was originally designed like this intentionally, so I didn't change it on a whim.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 27, 2014, 08:48:27 pm
TBH some games could be artificially set up only so that the dude doing it gets a shitload of awards.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: SavageLegacy on September 28, 2014, 04:20:25 am
Couldn't they still be set up the same way regardless, except without the best commander reward? Don't think that would really change anything.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Haika on September 28, 2014, 08:25:17 pm
Looks like you guys need to play the game more in order to fully understand the suffering such a small modification might bring to the table.

im so tired or playing for shitcomms in shitteams(mostly the least stacked team), and this means that the comm has to spawn more frequently to kill demorunners or whatever the threat is, cuz the team is somewhat too retarded to do so.
But if the comm marked, even retards would understand that something important is happening there where the mark is on the minimap, id rather go there.

Commanders are losing their role, instead of marking players n stuff, they play on the field and the only thing they do in their overview is to create a somewhat bulletproof base and research tech. After that is done, they go on the field so sneakers and demorunners might roam freely. Giving the commanders awards might result in commanders doing this even more frequently than they already do, even though the modification is not significant when you give it a quick view.

I am against it :x


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 28, 2014, 08:41:05 pm
Well, you can't really be complaining because of comms spawning and winning the game for their teams, can you? :)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 28, 2014, 08:57:42 pm
I suggest electing commanders who actually command.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on September 28, 2014, 09:01:18 pm
Some of you need to play in US on off hours. When your game is 5v5 the comms are inevitably playing more on the field.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 28, 2014, 09:23:47 pm
Some of you need to play in US on off hours. When your game is 5v5 the comms are inevitably playing more on the field.

Well, that is true.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Taggi on September 29, 2014, 08:24:22 am
Some of you need to play in US on off hours. When your game is 5v5 the comms are inevitably playing more on the field.

Commander spawns ruins small games much more then big games. It removes the purity of the hole game, where if you look at it competatively you no longer need your best commander as commander. Its safer to have a great dueler in comm because he can wreck anyone that comes close.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Shagroth on September 29, 2014, 10:57:45 am
Some of you need to play in US on off hours. When your game is 5v5 the comms are inevitably playing more on the field.

Commander spawns ruins small games much more then big games. It removes the purity of the hole game, where if you look at it competatively you no longer need your best commander as commander. Its safer to have a great dueler in comm because he can wreck anyone that comes close.
Could not agree more.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Haika on September 29, 2014, 12:20:18 pm
Well, you can't really be complaining because of comms spawning and winning the game for their teams, can you? :)

no but i can complain about the comms that spawning and losing the game for the team, which is usually the issue :D


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 29, 2014, 01:40:20 pm
Well, you can't really be complaining because of comms spawning and winning the game for their teams, can you? :)

no but i can complain about the comms that spawning and losing the game for the team, which is usually the issue :D

Then they're not getting any award for best comm :).


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: APirateHat on September 29, 2014, 02:23:39 pm
When will you add the award for worst comm?  :-D


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Haika on September 29, 2014, 02:46:42 pm
Well, you can't really be complaining because of comms spawning and winning the game for their teams, can you? :)

no but i can complain about the comms that spawning and losing the game for the team, which is usually the issue :D

Then they're not getting any award for best comm :).

doesnt matter much tbh, they will still try.

Some commanders, such as shapeshifer, knows how to spawn and still keep a track of whats going on(unless hes having a bad day), sadly this doesnt apply to all the other comms. I couldnt care less about what awards the comm gets/doesnt get. But in public games nowadays im sure this will lead to more miserable games as the overview guy is gone.

Im not saying comms shouldnt spawn, they should, and they have enough reasons to do so atm. No need in giving them one more whorish award reason to potentionally ruin the game for the team they play for.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: SavageLegacy on September 29, 2014, 10:37:05 pm
I don't see your guys argument here. Clearly for the commander to win the game, he still has to be a good commander and get tech and whatnot at the same rate, or faster than the other comm.

Especially in the US server when I am commanding against a stacked team, I find that I have to spawn at times, and start spawning often once I reach full tech and base is secure in order to keep my team alive, or to help with the push. Different commanders have different styles of doing this, and there are merits to both staying in comm and leaving it at times.

Awards have always been able to be given to the commander (assuming he resigned) before this patch, and no one complained. Why change that now?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on September 29, 2014, 10:38:26 pm
Hey SavageLegacy. Stop being so damn reasonable!


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on September 29, 2014, 10:41:04 pm
Awards have always been able to be given to the commander (assuming he resigned) before this patch, and no one complained. Why change that now?
I was specifically asked to code acting officer like commander for the "Best Commander" award.

If anything, a resigned commander getting all the other awards is an oversight made back then. :p


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Haika on September 29, 2014, 11:21:06 pm
I don't see your guys argument here. Clearly for the commander to win the game, he still has to be a good commander and get tech and whatnot at the same rate, or faster than the other comm.

Especially in the US server when I am commanding against a stacked team, I find that I have to spawn at times, and start spawning often once I reach full tech and base is secure in order to keep my team alive, or to help with the push. Different commanders have different styles of doing this, and there are merits to both staying in comm and leaving it at times.

Awards have always been able to be given to the commander (assuming he resigned) before this patch, and no one complained. Why change that now?

if this is true, all my writing is pointless. xD


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: SavageLegacy on September 30, 2014, 06:12:21 pm
Awards have always been able to be given to the commander (assuming he resigned) before this patch, and no one complained. Why change that now?
I was specifically asked to code acting officer like commander for the "Best Commander" award.

If anything, a resigned commander getting all the other awards is an oversight made back then. :p

You would still receive the best commander award in stats though, It just would not show up in the award screen.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: APirateHat on October 03, 2014, 06:15:32 pm
Found another bug. If you mine full capacatiy redstone and go die the "drop off resource" marking will still be there after you spawned and won't disappear until you mine a bit and give it to a drop off building.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on October 03, 2014, 06:40:17 pm
Thank you, and fixed on the next patch.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Tjens on October 04, 2014, 08:34:05 am
Not as much a bug as a suggestion: allot of times i still have old officer commands on my minimad/hud, especially for humans there can be an abdundant officer move command on the other side of the map (becouse the officer / team relocated back to base).. This will be especially confusing to new players, who could mindlessly follow these old officer commands to no avail to the game.

As such maybe set up a max timer for officer commands (a minute or so?) or maybe negate all officer commands on death to combat this issue?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on October 04, 2014, 08:46:01 am
The solution to this problem is not that obvious.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Tjens on October 04, 2014, 08:51:21 am
Explaaaaain, what are the drawbacks to the 2 solutions suggested?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Haika on October 04, 2014, 01:40:48 pm
Explaaaaain, what are the drawbacks to the 2 solutions suggested?

yo mama.
ashieeeet


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on October 04, 2014, 02:39:39 pm
Officer shouldn't have anything to do with it; commander order works the same way.
And has always been this way. :p

Marks persist until the target is either dead/destroyed or overwritten.
I can make marks last until de-spawned, if that's what people want.
(Usually, people don't want de-spawned mark-removal.)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: KQ on October 04, 2014, 05:45:46 pm
guys whats wrong with the messagebox?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Anti on October 05, 2014, 01:10:33 pm
Bug: Shaman lose their 5th item everytime they go inside a spawnpoint.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on October 05, 2014, 01:59:19 pm
guys whats wrong with the messagebox?
Could you be more specific, please?



Bug: Shaman lose their 5th item everytime they go inside a spawnpoint.
Reported many times, thank you.
Won't be fixed, as preset likely needs to be entirely rewritten.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on October 05, 2014, 10:58:16 pm
Newest patch fixes two bugs; that's all.
Mainly made the patch to clearly revision "before auth stuff" and "after auth stuff" for future debugging.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Moxy on October 06, 2014, 02:10:44 pm
I aint moaning but just wandering do we have any sort of time frame in mind until we can start inviting people into clans again?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on October 06, 2014, 02:44:07 pm
Probably once we set out to request password changes from major clan founders/leaders.
You'll be informed when and how.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Nightmare on October 07, 2014, 12:12:13 am
After seeing it in action a few times now, I can say with some measure of certainty that the 'behe hitting demo causes it to explode' change might be the most poorly implemented and least thought through "balance" I've ever seen added to a game. Demo running was already piss easy with mag buff, now the only hard counter to magged demo runners actually guarantees they will succeed. Great idea.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Nanaa on October 07, 2014, 12:25:30 am
After seeing it in action a few times now, I can say with some measure of certainty that the 'behe hitting demo causes it to explode' change might be the most poorly implemented and least thought through "balance" I've ever seen added to a game. Demo running was already piss easy with mag buff, now the only hard counter to magged demo runners actually guarantees they will succeed. Great idea.

Snares and bodyblocking are your counters. If demo charge is made into an actual object, it could be defused even when someone stands on it.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on October 07, 2014, 12:54:43 am
[...] Great idea.
Read 1st :: Post here your 2nd generation re-balancing suggestions  (http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,17471.0.html)


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Nightmare on October 07, 2014, 03:16:38 am
Thanks, but the only suggestion I have to revert it back to the way it was. Demo runners still got plenty of demos off even with people playing behe defense.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Haika on October 07, 2014, 03:30:21 am
After seeing it in action a few times now, I can say with some measure of certainty that the 'behe hitting demo causes it to explode' change might be the most poorly implemented and least thought through "balance" I've ever seen added to a game. Demo running was already piss easy with mag buff, now the only hard counter to magged demo runners actually guarantees they will succeed. Great idea.

Snares and bodyblocking are your counters. If demo charge is made into an actual object, it could be defused even when someone stands on it.

then lets hope it wont ever be turned into an actual object :)
one movement and it can get destroyed anyway


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Nightmare on October 08, 2014, 02:01:46 am
Why is it not mentioned in the patch notes that the officer regen for siege units was changed?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on October 08, 2014, 02:55:44 am
Supposedly a bug, not a feature.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Daemon on October 08, 2014, 08:44:01 am
Why is it not mentioned in the patch notes that the officer regen for siege units was changed?

It was? In what way?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Nightmare on October 08, 2014, 11:52:22 pm
Why is it not mentioned in the patch notes that the officer regen for siege units was changed?

It was? In what way?

Used to be 4hp per second (for all siege units).  Now it seems to be 6hp per 5 seconds, though it also has irregular timing so perhaps it is a bug. I wasn't paying attention on other siege units since the regen doesn't matter on the others as much


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: JmZ on October 12, 2014, 10:34:20 am
Why is it not mentioned in the patch notes that the officer regen for siege units was changed?

It was? In what way?

Used to be 4hp per second (for all siege units).  Now it seems to be 6hp per 5 seconds, though it also has irregular timing so perhaps it is a bug. I wasn't paying attention on other siege units since the regen doesn't matter on the others as much

+1


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: OldUttar on October 18, 2014, 02:06:48 am
I updated my mac to OS X Yosemite and now the mouse won't work in Savage. Conditionally. I have a third party mouse utility called Smooth Mouse that I sometimes use, if I turn that on, then the mouse works in Savage but certain things get completely unusable(first person mode, for instance goes spinning top crazy) and basic turning alternates between too slow and inhumanly fast. But if I disable that utility and just use the default OS X mouse settings, the mouse freezes at the load screen. In Mavericks there was a similar freeze that happened sometimes but if you left it alone for a second it would figure itself out, Yosemite seems to just freeze and that's that.

So, the game is rendered essentially unplayable for me in Yosemite for the time being. Possible that maybe a different mouse utility or different drivers might fix things up.

I know development is kind of packed up and mac development as well can't expect much. But I thought I'd mention it anyway in case any other OS X users have experienced something similar since updating to Yosemite.

I suspect that Yosemite's mouse drivers are bugged anyway. For the first time in decades of computing basic mouse navigation has been lagging and stuttering for me since Yosemite, but only under some conditions. Smooth Mouse fixed all of that thankfully, but it makes me wonder if there isn't something wrong with Apple's development here.

Anyway, just a thing that cropped up. Hopefully I'll figure something out or it might be GG for me.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on October 18, 2014, 03:18:53 pm
Thanks for mentioning, but yeah, Mac...  :-(


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: jazzking on October 18, 2014, 04:25:55 pm
Try to see if there aren't sensitivity adjustments you can make in Savage to see if it works with Smoothmouse. From what I've read it's a superior mouse driver.


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: SavageLegacy on November 29, 2014, 11:24:04 pm
Was there any fix to the yosemite issues?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: BrownAle on January 16, 2015, 07:03:23 pm
Could you please fix the fucking sensor bug?


Title: Re: Savage XR 1.1 Patch
Post by: Hakugei on January 16, 2015, 07:33:34 pm
That bug report is brilliant.