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H3027
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« on: September 03, 2011, 03:26:31 pm »

Savage XR Melee Tutorial

Instead of doing it the complicated (almost impossible) way with live recording a full duel tutorial demo, I'll just cut everything into a video with keyboard & mouse overlay and a bunch of explanations beforehand about hitboxes, attack window and mouse sens. The tutorial will be voice acted by Lea Gulino with the option to add youtube subtitles in different languages later.

http://piratepad.net/meleetutorial
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 01:04:44 am by H3027 » Logged



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Second Witch: When the hurlyburly's done, / When the battle's lost and won.
H3027
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2011, 03:26:43 pm »

BEAST PART IDEAS/DRAFT


1.
Melee Tutorial Demo

1.1
Introduction and setup

Welcome to the Savage Melee Combat Tutorial!

The combat in Savage is simple but sophisticated. Humans can block or attack while Beasts can leap and attack. Notice that a result of being blocked is a small mini stun of 600 ms. This typically allows humans enough time to return a hit.
(showing both)

Before we start with the combat training we will have a look at a setting that is crucial for your Savage experience, the mouse sensitivity.

For a basic guide your melee weapon you should be able turn your unit 360 degrees during the space of one jump. Your ranged weapon should still be able to precisely hit any target within a 90 degree arc in front of you. Most players use dual sensitivity in order to satisfy these requirements. You can find the mouse sensitivity in the player options, along with the check box for dual sensitivity.

1.2
Basics

Beginning with the Beast race, let's take a look at a basic forward leap attack.
(doing 3 hits and leaps together with W, without moving the mouse)
This is the most striaghtforward way to attack your opponent, however, it is easily countered. Leaping sideways and attacking while being slightly less straightforward is also very predictable.
(leaping frontally and getting blocked, then attacking sideways and getting blocked)
Leaps can counter blocks and blocks can counter leaps. What matters is how you perform them. But before we start with the counter methods we will have a look at the technical aspects of the game.


1.3
Stamina Hit

The block is a mini stun that lasts 600 ms and allows your opponent to hit you.

**copy/paste** But in most of the cases - unless his reaction is extremely fast or you are just slow - he won't be able to reblock and you can perform the so called stamina hit and hit him back just after he hit you.**copy/paste**

Remember that you can't use the Stamina hit against Savages and Nomads, as they can easily reblock.


1.4
Stamina & Rabid

This revenge hit is called stamina hit because Beasts often use a melee enhanchment called "Rabid" that gives Stamina back based on hit damage. Rabid allows you to keep leaping and killing infinitely, as long as you have enough health points and as long as you don't get blocked and killed.

What is Stamina? Stamina is what you need to perform your leaps, jumps or sprinting. You can find the stamina bar on the right bottom in bright blue. Don't let it go below 15%, or it will increase slowly. Under level 5 you can perform 3 leaps with full stamina, above level 5 you can perform 5 leaps.


1.5
Hitboxes

The human block builds a 180 degree arc in front of you. He can block instantly without delay. Savage uses generic hits. Imagine a sword. The hit direction depends on your mouse movements. You can't just stand next to your opponent and press the attack button to hit behind the block - as the animation might suggest. As you see, the leap ability combined with a mouse flick is crucial to get around the block.


2.0
Get into Position

Stand next to your opponent and go 2 steps back to get into a good position. Don't aim at his body, aim about one body width next to him! As a general guideline: Look as much down that the head of your opponent almost touches the top of your screen. Seeing the situation from above will help you estimating the leap distance better.


2.1
Backstab

The backstab is the most basic way to counter a human block. The first Predator attack is slower than the leap, that's why you have to press the Left Mouse button first, then wait 0.2 seconds, then press the Right Mouse button together with W. When your leap is 80% finished, perform a quick 180 degree mouse flick to the left side.

Most people doing this the first time will either leap too early, stand too far away, turn too early, too slow or too late. Aim and hold your mouse down on the table and don't move it until it's time for the backstab. Practice this backstab until you get a solid aim and timing, then proceed to the next step.

Let's try a fake hit. Get into the right position again, hit the first time into the air, then press Left and right mouse button and W together and perform the backstab. The second attack is fast enough, you can time the leap at the same time.

Let's try two fake hits. Get into the right position, hit two times into the air, then press the all 3 buttons together and perform the backstab.

Now let's try the backstab and the 2 fake hits on the other side. Get into the right position on the left side of your opponent. It works exactly the same way, just that you perform the backstab into the opposite direction. Just move your mouse towards the body of your opponent.

Now let's perform 2 hits in a row. One right and one left. Get into position on the right side again. Most people will have difficulties to aim fast enough to get the second hit right. Try to perform your mouse flick exactly 180 degrees, so you will automatically aim into the perfect direction for the second hit. Don't stress, and take the time you need to aim correctly - but don't take too much time, or you'll have to start with the first attack again.

Most people keep the W button continously pressed, but as long as you're not very fast at aiming it is better to press W for each leap again.

Now let's try 3 hits in a row. One right, one left and one right.
Go slowly, turn exactly 180 degrees and take enough time for aiming. That's how it looks from above, you're leaping exactly in one line.

Now try the same 3 hits on the other side. One left, one right, one left.

Now, lets attack 3 times the left side only. You have to turn your mouse only about 140 degrees. You will leap a triangle or fish.

Now, lets do the same with the right side only.


2.2
Timing

You've now learned the basic mouse movements. Now let's have a look at timing of your hits.
The Predator has a 3 hit combo. The first hit is the slowest, the second hit the fastest and the third hit the most risky, because of the cooldown that follows. The fastest hit speed is almost double as fast as the slowest.
The best way to learn the time window:

Press "Page Down" for continuous attack. That's the fastest attack speed possible.
Go to a predator NPC and hit him once. Then stand in front of him and try to attack with the same speed. That's the slowest attack speed possible.

Now try to perform the Backstabs you've learned before with different attack speed.
Do them as slow as possible first. Then speed up until you attack at the maximum speed. You can also use continuous attack to get the right feeling for it.


2.3
Bouncing

Bouncing is a technique which allows you to move faster and further with less stamina. Bouncing is usually combined with Bunnyhops to keep the speed a bit longer.
The speed advantage is obvious. (Show comparation) One bounce is like 2.5 leaps but costs 46% less stamina.

Bouncing & Bunnihopping is mainly used for 3 things:
- Traveling faster to certain placed on the map or between enemies in fights
- Attacking from far away
- Getting out of range after attacking

2.3.1 Bunnyhopping
Let's try a bounce followed with bunnyhops: Push W first, shortly afterwards the right mouse button together with the "Space" key. Hold W always down and press "Space" everytime you touch the ground.

2.3.2 Late Bounce
Bouncing can be used to attack from far away.
Go close to the right side of your opponent and go 4-5 steps back go get into a good position. Push "Space" together with W and the right mouse button.

2.3.3 Early Bounce
You've learned to use bounces to attack from far away. But bounces are very useful as well to get out of range when you're close.
Stand close next to your opponent, then press attack and bounce backwards with S.

2.3.4 Bouncing off Blocks
This works also to bounce off blocks.
Stand in front of your opponent and bounce with S shortly after your attack.

It is also possible to attack from far away and get out of range with bouncing off blocks.
Go 3-4 steps back and perform a regular bounce backstab. As the bounce is slow, there's a good chance your opponent will be able to block his back on time. As soon as you perform the mouse flick switch from W to S and bunnyhop twice.

Now practice bouncing with all attacks the tutorial introduced before. Only bounce when it's needed. Be aware that your control over your Predator while flying in the air is much reduced. Bouncing from far away is predictable and easy to block.


2.4
Multileaping

People talk about multileaping when they perform 2 leaps or more for one single attack. Multileaping is the fastest way to attack from far away or to perform moves with increased speed and confusion, but it also costs more stamina.

To get started with multileaping, stand still and press A and D while pressing the right mouse button. Make sure you press the leap button not too early, or you won't leap at all.
Repeat the same zigzag with W and S.

Let's try it combined with a hit. Look how easily you can escape a freeswing by leaping back and forth.

You can also escape by leaping sideways and then forward. Stand close to your opponent and wait until he attacks, then attack and leap D and W or A and W.

We can also use multileaps to bounce off blocks. Stand 4 steps away from your opponent, then attack and leap with W, in the moment he blocks we leap back with S and bounce.

Popular variations of multileaping are


2.5
Advanced Mousework

Advanced Mousework requires a lot of experience, but is the most effective way to duel with minimal use of stamina. Mouse movements in Savage are completely unrestricted in any moment. That's what we're going to exploit now.

Advanced Mousework is boiled down to letting your opponent never know which side you're going to attack. Only in the very last moment you're changing the direction where you're leaping at. Required is a solid speed aim.

Let's practice that aim without leaping first. Stand on the left side of your opponent, press attack, wait 0.2 seconds and turn your mouse 90 degrees to the right side and back again. You've hit your opponent with a very fast and unexpected mouse flick.

Let's do this with leap now. Attack, wait 0.2 seconds, turn your mouse 90 degrees, leap and turn it back.

Let's try the same on the other side and with 180 degree flick.

You can of course combine advanced mousework with multileaping.


3.1
Duelling

The big difference in real duels is that the opponents move constantly, which makes it really hard to aim.

A basic rule is: stand close to your opponent. This will prevent him from using ranged weapons and minimize the reaction time required to block your leaps. Don't bounce too much. Your attacks are more predictable and slower, and the opponent has enough time to use medkits.


3.2
Terrain Control
Competitive server settings don't allow beasts to leap uphills, which gives the gameplay an additional depth of terrain control. Always try to reach higher grounds. If you have to fight uphills, stand even closer than usual, use sprint, bounces and more sideway leaps.


HUMAN PART IDEAS/DRAFT



...
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 04:12:09 pm by H3027 » Logged



First Witch: When shall we three meet again / In thunder, lightning, or in rain?
Second Witch: When the hurlyburly's done, / When the battle's lost and won.
Nanaa
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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2011, 03:59:27 pm »

Making this will be very hard. Since you can't cut demos, recording must succeed in one run. The players are forced to perform extremely clean mouse(/keyboard)work... but if they fuck up some part, the whole thing must be restarted. It could be a very frustrating experience for the makers... depends on how long and complicated it's gonna be tho

Other than that, I give my thumbs up for the idea. Having a 5 mb demo tutorial compared to having a 500 mb video tutorial is a good idea. Especially, since the game itself is ~500 mb in size.
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HaveFaith
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2011, 04:10:46 pm »

mission impossible...
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H3027
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2011, 04:25:50 pm »

Alright, I've added some long ass draft above. This is my main concern:

I want you to reflect about the methods of teaching newbies.
How to start, what to exactly include in what exact order and how to end?


So far there have been made only Beast tutorials, but I'd like to add human part too.
http://www.noobflicks.com/watch/2695/pred_tutorial_test
http://www.noobflicks.com/watch/3291/bouncing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQeRgGpa1GM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E8u0sxqd04

Always keep the limits in mind: there are no cuts in the demo. If you want to show different perspectives you'lll have to add more players.
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2011, 06:56:45 pm »

Mouse control is very important and I think it needs a bit more attention. Doing something like the simple backstab already requires more mouse control then just spinning 50  times and forget where you stand.

Human tutorial would be nice too, since everyone always try's to improve their beast while there is a lot to accomplish with training humans too.
For humans movement is very important and focus on the same things as the beast tutorial but then how to counter their moves ^^.
Specially because a lot of people use "combo's" or certain moves that their used to.

Is there also gonna be a part about scavenger/nomad and savage/stalker? Because knowing how to fight early in the game can be more then usefull.


btw, I can help playing as human/beast.
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2011, 06:59:17 pm »

is there going to be a commander tutorial after you've finished beasts
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H3027
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2011, 07:01:28 pm »

is there going to be a commander tutorial after you've finished beasts

If someone is going to create it, sure. Remember that mouse movements are not recorded in demos. The commander tutorial would have to be interactive (with triggers).
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Second Witch: When the hurlyburly's done, / When the battle's lost and won.
Zaitev
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2011, 07:03:59 pm »

What is Stamina? Stamina is what you need to perform your leaps, jumps or sprinting. You can find the stamina bar on the right bottom in bright blue. Don't let it go below 15%, or it will increase slowly.
Maybe you could change 'or it will increase slowly' into 'or it will increase slower than it usually does.'

2.3.1 Bunnyhopping
Let's try a bounce followed with bunnyhops: Push W first, shortly afterwards the right mouse button together with the "Space" key. Hold W always down and press "Space" everytime you touch the ground.
Maybe change the last sentence to 'Keep holding W, and press "space" everytime you touch the ground'.


Enough grammar bitching Tongue.

The draft is written as if the player can perform the actions right at that moment, but he's actually looking at a demo. Maybe it'd be good to tell the player what he's looking at in the first few sentences so he doesn't start pushing buttons that will close, forward or rewind the demo.

Sounds like a tricky project! But it will also be pretty cool when it's done and implemented. Thumbs up!  Afro
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 07:15:41 pm by Zaitev » Logged
H3027
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2011, 07:36:53 pm »

@Zaitev: That draft needs a major revision. This is not the time to worry about grammar  Wink
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2011, 08:07:21 am »

I suggest splitting it in about 3 parts. It's better than doing the big one 10 times and always getting something wrong at some point or another and redoing it all from scratch.

1. Defensive Moves.
2. Offensive Moves.
3. Rabid/carni comparison

or

1. Basic moves
2. Intermediate moves
3. Combos and timing

Something like this.
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H3027
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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2011, 10:50:14 am »

I suggest splitting it in about 3 parts. It's better than doing the big one 10 times and always getting something wrong at some point or another and redoing it all from scratch.

1. Defensive Moves.
2. Offensive Moves.
3. Rabid/carni comparison

or

1. Basic moves
2. Intermediate moves
3. Combos and timing

Something like this.


Well, that would be an option, however if everyone else fails, I'd rather play it myself than splitting it up.

1. Basics - Backstab
2. Timing - Avanced Mousework
3. Duels - Stalker/Scavenger
4. Humans - Savage/Nomad
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2011, 11:20:42 am »

There's also the issue of re-watching specific parts. No point in having to browse through the entire course to re-watch only certain moves, easier to find by splitting and structuring it.
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« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2011, 07:23:43 pm »

Split the demo up to more demos. I support daemons idča, but in categories. It's an advantage to have short demo's because the user doesn't have to watch/ forward his way trough a 10 minute demo when he only want to watch that specific part of savage melee combat he doesn't understand.

Make a submenu in each of the races (human & beast).

like this:

beasts :

- Before you begin (mouse & settings tips + graphics)
- Basic attack/leaping
- Advanced leaping

human :
- Before you begin (mouse, settings and so on.. )
- basic block/attack
- Advanced blocking

everything that isn't mentioned here, the player should be able to learn by himself in the game over time. I don't think the tutorial should be supposed to cover the whole melee-combat system, it's too much information for newbies at that time. Give them the basics, and the rest they will learn by themself Smiley

Just my opinion Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2011, 11:18:03 pm »

Just throwing this out there: first make a mock draft of the tutorial, and make it 3 minutes tops. People who will spend more than 10 minutes listening to:

Quote
Now let's perform 2 hits in a row. One right and one left. Get into position on the right side again. Most people will have difficulties to aim fast enough to get the second hit right. Try to perform your mouse flick exactly 180 degrees, so you will automatically aim into the perfect direction for the second hit. Don't stress, and take the time you need to aim correctly - but don't take too much time, or you'll have to start with the first attack again.

Will be the ones already thrown hours into the game anyway, and won't need the tutorial. And it will be just a gimmick. An overly long one.

Shit, I'm like a Savage vet and was starting to get bored at the word "exactly" already.

Make it short and sound, not tedious and precise.
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