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Author Topic: Why isn't Savage XR open-source?  (Read 5953 times)
foo
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« on: February 19, 2011, 12:20:50 pm »

v74 all.

So... why isn't Savage XR open-source? You (the devs) recently complained about not having enough help with developing XR. If it were open-source, I'm pretty sure lots of developers would come and help.  afro

On a pretty much unrelated note, you should also pay more attention to the Linux port. For me at least, it never worked (white screen of death). If you could sort that out, and maybe create an Ubuntu package/PPA for it, you might just get Savage XR featured on sites like OMG! Ubuntu or WebUpd8, which have quite a lot of readers. And among them there will most likely be developers or graphic designers that will want to help. Which they might decide not to do if it's not open-source, which brings me back to the previous point.  tongue

I'm not a game dev, graphic designer or even a good Savage player, but I really love this game and would like to see it open-sourced. I hope you don't see this post as insulting, because that's not my intention and I really appreciate the work you do.
I just don't see a practical reason for it to not be open-source, and I'm looking for answers.
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Mohican
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2011, 01:53:16 pm »

Making savage open-source would allow acertain kind od people to wreak havoc with Savage.

Last year we had problems with someone who created a server slot spamming bot using the Savage 2.0e source code.
We had to release a special fix to counter this.

Some other people would find it tempting to look for ways to cheat.
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biggeruniverse
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2011, 02:54:17 pm »

I know I would.
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https://twitter.com/SavageRebirth
Quote from: Helios
You mean an already 7 yr old game is going to die eventually?  Good call there Nostradumbass
Craw
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2011, 03:23:02 pm »

Go play combat arms man... that is a perfect example of an open source game going bad. =)
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biggeruniverse
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2011, 05:19:24 pm »

ah Nexon Games. Better known perhaps for Maple Story
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https://twitter.com/SavageRebirth
Quote from: Helios
You mean an already 7 yr old game is going to die eventually?  Good call there Nostradumbass
foo
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2011, 09:38:09 pm »

Making savage open-source would allow acertain kind od people to wreak havoc with Savage.

Last year we had problems with someone who created a server slot spamming bot using the Savage 2.0e source code.
We had to release a special fix to counter this.

Some other people would find it tempting to look for ways to cheat.

I don't see how releasing the source code would make it easier for people to cheat. And I don't quite get your spamming bot example; is there anything that would stop that someone from spamming server slots without the source code?
Although you have a point in that people could find glitches and not submit fixes.
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Craw
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2011, 01:52:34 am »

Making savage open-source would allow acertain kind od people to wreak havoc with Savage.

Last year we had problems with someone who created a server slot spamming bot using the Savage 2.0e source code.
We had to release a special fix to counter this.

Some other people would find it tempting to look for ways to cheat.

I don't see how releasing the source code would make it easier for people to cheat. And I don't quite get your spamming bot example; is there anything that would stop that someone from spamming server slots without the source code?
Although you have a point in that people could find glitches and not submit fixes.

Source code designs the game, it sets EVERY limit. For example you can't walk thru walls right now right? If the source code was changed it would be possible for you to walk through walls.

Another example could be setting your damage level to 99999 so then you kill everything one hit.

You name it, you can do it with access to source code.
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Mooseeeeey
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2011, 06:24:52 am »

Well, can't you just use a decomplier or something?
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foo
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2011, 09:23:13 am »

Making savage open-source would allow acertain kind od people to wreak havoc with Savage.

Last year we had problems with someone who created a server slot spamming bot using the Savage 2.0e source code.
We had to release a special fix to counter this.

Some other people would find it tempting to look for ways to cheat.

I don't see how releasing the source code would make it easier for people to cheat. And I don't quite get your spamming bot example; is there anything that would stop that someone from spamming server slots without the source code?
Although you have a point in that people could find glitches and not submit fixes.

Source code designs the game, it sets EVERY limit. For example you can't walk thru walls right now right? If the source code was changed it would be possible for you to walk through walls.

Another example could be setting your damage level to 99999 so then you kill everything one hit.

You name it, you can do it with access to source code.

Stuff like that is supposed to be limited by the server. If it was controlled by the client, I could just start up Poke and mess with the variables. Actually, I think I might try doing that...
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Craw
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2011, 09:38:18 pm »

Making savage open-source would allow acertain kind od people to wreak havoc with Savage.

Last year we had problems with someone who created a server slot spamming bot using the Savage 2.0e source code.
We had to release a special fix to counter this.

Some other people would find it tempting to look for ways to cheat.

I don't see how releasing the source code would make it easier for people to cheat. And I don't quite get your spamming bot example; is there anything that would stop that someone from spamming server slots without the source code?
Although you have a point in that people could find glitches and not submit fixes.

Source code designs the game, it sets EVERY limit. For example you can't walk thru walls right now right? If the source code was changed it would be possible for you to walk through walls.

Another example could be setting your damage level to 99999 so then you kill everything one hit.

You name it, you can do it with access to source code.

Stuff like that is supposed to be limited by the server. If it was controlled by the client, I could just start up Poke and mess with the variables. Actually, I think I might try doing that...

It's yes and no to what controls what these days. But you try that, let me know. =)
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Craw
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2011, 02:52:50 am »

Well, can't you just use a decomplier or something?


Not exactly. I did not code Savage or Savage XR but if it was coded well then that would NOT work because they should have been protecting their variables and important functions under private or protected methods/functions. =)
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Mohican
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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2011, 02:56:42 am »

I have implemented Python in XR 1.0 to make large sections of the code become opensource.
Eventually, I would like to keep only the core engine itself closed-source, and make the game completely opensource.
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foo
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« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2011, 07:01:49 am »

I have implemented Python in XR 1.0 to make large sections of the code become opensource.
Eventually, I would like to keep only the core engine itself closed-source, and make the game completely opensource.

I did see that announcement, but I didn't know you'd be converting old code to Python. That's great news!  grin

Another question: what license is Savage under? Can it be redistributed? I was thinking of setting up a repository for Debian/Ubuntu users, but I couldn't see any mention of a specific license.

And, since I'm on a questions spree, what language(s) is Savage coded in?

Well, can't you just use a decomplier or something?


Not exactly. I did not code Savage or Savage XR but if it was coded well then that would NOT work because they should have been protecting their variables and important functions under private or protected methods/functions. =)

Protected and private are about hiding internal variables from other parts of the program, not from outside the program. You can decompile absolutely anything, though some programs can be obfuscated (that doesn't mean they can't be decompiled, just that you'd have to be clinically insane to try and read the output).
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Mohican
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« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2011, 07:17:25 am »

Savage was entirely coded in C++, until I implemented the python wrapper that is.
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phoenix-3000
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2011, 06:20:55 am »

Bonjour,

I agree :

No open source please!!!.

But I wish the team programmers can build the next release as soon as possible,
- to balance better the teams players,

- to simplify or control better the Work of the Referee (not always fair) with an Automatic Camp Control with an automatic Wound (Starting after X seconds, with life decreased 10% each Y seconds, maybe ?) for
            the BEHE or the CATAPULT near a garrison or a sublair or a flag, Or
            the PLAYER on the top of a WALL, a GRIMMSWALL, or a BUILDING, or on the mountain if near an enemy base  and

- to add some variable structures (stone, group of 4 monkits easy to kill or similars, objects) in the Maps to increase the interest of the game.

- to control better the Maps (EXPLOITS controls), and to correct some bugs in the Map, to simplify the work of the Map-Conceptors (as, players stopped with his feet under ground) .


One special wish : I hope the programmers find a system to
stop the use of the Stupid Rushes.

as penalty for the victorious commander if the game is under 5 minutes.


This possibility is the worst thing we can do with the SAVAGE game.
SAVAGE is a very beautiful game,

except for the management of the resource (Gold and Stone  for the human essentially - almost in defence)
and this problem of the Rush, used almost always by some poor (or tired or searching to increase his score) commander without imagination, before the defence is installed.



REMARK : I hope one day, to satisfy some players as Me or as the author of this Thread probably (FOO)  afro,

that we can import to SAVAGE game, some personnal objects build (I think it is better than to see the names) with,

Sketchup from Google

the basic release of Sketchup is a free 3D software (look to Internet), and enough to build the objects.

Good Luck! I know, to do all that,  are not easy   rolleyes
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 07:50:37 am by phoenix-3000 » Logged

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